Sinusitis FAQ

Nasal or SINUS irrigator??

Question:

in article 985b3ebb.0209151102.55111…@posting.google.com, cwhite0714 at cwhite0…@fsi.net wrote on 9/15/02 3:02 PM: > My understanding is that urine is sterile only as long as it is inside > the bladder. As soon as it comes in contact with outer tissues, it’s > exposed to bacteria and can no longer be safely considered sterile.

I guess you could say that about sterile irrigating fluid, couldn’t you? As soon as you decant it from its sterile environment, in this case a bottle rather than a bladder, the same bacteria that are on the surface of every thing are on it as well. In any event, this has really gone a long way from sinusitis. I am not trying to maintain a position but just mentioning what I think is an interesting fact. I don’t blame your doctor for being grossed out when some urine hit her in the eye; I would be grossed out too – but at the same time I sort of wonder why. I think that that disgust can tell us a lot about how infants are imprinted with social attitudes.     Larry

Response:

>Why have we been taught to wash our hands after urinating then, as if it’s a >> contaminating substance?

The urine is sterile as long as it is inside the bladder. Once it hits the air, airborne bacteria love it becasue its warm and sometimes has glucose or protein, so bacteria thrive. Washing your hands is more a precaution of what you will pick up from the faucets and doorknobs than from touching yourself. Remember people don’t only urinate while in bathrooms!  Then there’s the case with women who when wiping can pick up bacteria from the rectal area on their hands. Wash your hands, please! Mom was right. Nadine

Response:

in article alopno$1sbco…@ID-147995.news.dfncis.de, Special K at kandknos…@tnni.net wrote on 9/11/02 9:13 PM: > I thought the primary purpose of the sinuses was to humidify and warm the > inhaled air before it reached the lungs. If sinuses are designed to handle > inhaled air, how could they ever be sterile? For that matter, how much of > any part of our bodies can really be sterile, to any meaningful degree?

Your urine is sterile, and as such can be a valuable cleansing agent for dirty wounds, when more standard methods are not immediately available. The idea of a bunch of men standing over an injured person and pissing into their wounds may disgust you, but they may be saving a life.     Larry  

Response:

Larry… LOL..    Shutup and lie still…You’ve been in a bad accident; we’re only here to sterilize your wounds.          Funny, I’ve heard some posters here complain here that their tap water wasn’t sterile enough for sinus irrigation. Oops… Don’t want to put any kinky ideas into one’s head.    …Jon

Response:

"Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message

news:B9A6422D.38E0%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… > Your urine is sterile, and as such can be a valuable cleansing agent for > dirty wounds, when more standard methods are not immediately available.

Why have we been taught to wash our hands after urinating then, as if it’s a contaminating substance?

Response:

Hello… I guess one could  pass on some germs if he had bladder infection. At any rate.. The more one washes the hands, the better. It’s now been five years since I’ve had a cold, simply because I use the Purell hand (alcohol) lotion which I keep in my truck. I use it religiously whenever I return, say from shopping, for example.    ..Plus I make it a habit to wash my hands on a regular basis thrughout the day. The fewer the colds, the fewer the sinus problems  …Jon

Response:

in article uo819gs9vb1…@corp.supernews.com, MS at m…@nospam.com wrote on 9/14/02 11:51 PM: > "Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message > news:B9A6422D.38E0%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… >> Your urine is sterile, and as such can be a valuable cleansing agent for >> dirty wounds, when more standard methods are not immediately available. > Why have we been taught to wash our hands after urinating then, as if it’s a > contaminating substance?

You know, I’ve wondered about that. BTW, I made the statement not because I favor abandoning old taboos, but simply because someone asked if we had any sterile body fluids and what that sterility might be good for.     Larry

Response:

My understanding is that urine is sterile only as long as it is inside the bladder. As soon as it comes in contact with outer tissues, it’s exposed to bacteria and can no longer be safely considered sterile. And even if she knew it was sterile, my doctor was still grossed out when she got splatted in the eye by urine accidentally released from a bladder during an operation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Larry Preuss <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message <news:B9A6422D.38E0%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net>… > in article alopno$1sbco…@ID-147995.news.dfncis.de, Special K at > kandknos…@tnni.net wrote on 9/11/02 9:13 PM: > > I thought the primary purpose of the sinuses was to humidify and warm the > > inhaled air before it reached the lungs. If sinuses are designed to handle > > inhaled air, how could they ever be sterile? For that matter, how much of > > any part of our bodies can really be sterile, to any meaningful degree? > Your urine is sterile, and as such can be a valuable cleansing agent for > dirty wounds, when more standard methods are not immediately available. The > idea of a bunch of men standing over an injured person and pissing into > their wounds may disgust you, but they may be saving a life. >     Larry

Response:

I thought the primary purpose of the sinuses was to humidify and warm the inhaled air before it reached the lungs. If sinuses are designed to handle inhaled air, how could they ever be sterile? For that matter, how much of any part of our bodies can really be sterile, to any meaningful degree? " MS" <m…@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:un7k153gtgmf84@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Another point– > Is it really a good goal to want to have the fluid go into the sinuses? > Perhaps when one has an active sinus infection, to wash out the infected > pus. > When one is not infected, the sinuses are supposed to be sterile. The nose > however, is never sterile, always full of microbes. So, even if one’s > equipment is 100% sterile, and the solution one is shooting in is 100% > sterile, if it washes contaminated material from the nose into the sinuses, > is that a good thing?

Response:

http://www.entlink.net/documents/sinus_normal_sinuses.pdf This link has a pretty good picture (requires Acrobat reader) "Oliver" <oliver1…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:DJgb9.6363$N%4.496330@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m probably going to start up a fire storm of controversy here, but I agree > with your doctor.  I do not feel that irrigation actually floods the > sinuses.  Rather, it floods and rinses the nasal passages, and floods and > rinses a few of the sinus openings.  I think it rinses the ethmoid and > maxillary sinus openings the most effectively.  The irrigation fluid is > going to follow the path of least resistance, which at least in my case, is > up one nostrile until it reaches the passegways to the throught, or the > other nasal passage way.  Then, it goes out. > Never the less, rinsing the openings and flushing the nasal passageways > still provides considerable relief.  If the nasal passages are flooded and > jamed up with mucus, there is no way that mucus that is still in the sinuses > is going to make it through the openings, and out the nasal passegeways. > So, keeping the nose clear is a good step.  Plus, the salene solution sooths > and rinses the sinus openings, which can reduce inflamation there, making it > more likely that mucus will be able to get out of the sinuses, and then out > through the nose. > Keep in mind, that I am not a doctor, and that the above is just my opinion > on what happens to me, when I irrigate.  If someone can teach me how to get > fluid actually into the sinuses, then I’m all ears.  I am also a converted > irrigation skeptic.  It helps, quite a bit. > I’d try it if I was in your place.  I’d start with a cheep ear bulb, and if > you like it, spend the money to try the water pick out. > Here is a cool link that I found while searching for a picture of the nasal > passegeways to support my "nasal" irrigation theory.  I did’nt find a good > pic, but they have some pretty cool info here…. >  http://www.entnet.org/ > Oliver > "Jim-Bob" <luvo…@utk.edu> wrote in message > news:3d6d1e78$1_4@news.utk.edu… > > Hi, > > Tuesday’s CT scan says my sinuses are ok, but I still think my head would > > feel better if I hooked a FIRE HOSE to my nose and blasted my sinuses with > > water (or something). > > My question:  Do the Water Pik and Grossan device wash the "nose" OR do > they > > reach way, way, up into the "sinuses"??  When asked about sinus > irrigation, > > my Dr. said there was no irrigating the "sinus".   Hmm???? > > thanks in advance! (tia) > > dan

Response:

I irrigate once per day with the Rinoflow.  The irrigator tip for the Water Pick scared me. Here is the link to the Rinoflow. http://www.respironics.com/product_library/invoke.cfm?objectid=4E0DC3… -423C-9206F0D003AE806D  I bought mine at a local allergy store and was even reimbursed by my insurance company. I swear by it, it really works.  I have allergies and have been off of my medication for a couple of months now.  I would rather irrigate than take medication every day. Hope this helps. "Jim-Bob" <luvo…@utk.edu> wrote in message

news:3d6d1e78$1_4@news.utk.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Tuesday’s CT scan says my sinuses are ok, but I still think my head would > feel better if I hooked a FIRE HOSE to my nose and blasted my sinuses with > water (or something). > My question:  Do the Water Pik and Grossan device wash the "nose" OR do they > reach way, way, up into the "sinuses"??  When asked about sinus irrigation, > my Dr. said there was no irrigating the "sinus".   Hmm???? > thanks in advance! (tia) > dan

Response:

Another point– Is it really a good goal to want to have the fluid go into the sinuses? Perhaps when one has an active sinus infection, to wash out the infected pus. When one is not infected, the sinuses are supposed to be sterile. The nose however, is never sterile, always full of microbes. So, even if one’s equipment is 100% sterile, and the solution one is shooting in is 100% sterile, if it washes contaminated material from the nose into the sinuses, is that a good thing?

Response:

"Oliver" <oliver1…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:e%Vb9.8515$%D6.785858@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net… > One way or another, I think it’s easy to agree that irrigation is a good > thing.  No argument there.  I’ve ceased to care about the why, and worry > only about the whether at this point.

Actually, although many ENTs recommend it these days, I’ve had some very prominent ones recommend against it. So, it’s not exactly a point of 100% agreement in the medical/ENT community, that irrigation is good. I don’t care to repeat all the details again, of what I’ve written before. If you do a search for the word "irrigation" on this NG, you’ll find thousands of posts discussing it. I personally couldn’t stop irrigating, as my nose gets so full of thick junk, I wouldn’t be able to breathe. Just to point out, that it is not a point of 100% agreement in the medical community, that irrigation is good. Also, most I’ve seen do not say one type of irrigation is better than the others, as one reads from some here.

Response:

One way or another, I think it’s easy to agree that irrigation is a good thing.  No argument there.  I’ve ceased to care about the why, and worry only about the whether at this point. Perhaps we should put together a clincal trial group, and test out this, er, um, romance problem.  Any volunteers? And….. I do mean with your own partners "ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020829122418.25050.00004320@mb-md.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> no matter how hard I try to expell the > liquid, a few hours later and I bend over and…..        Jon > yes, that is when the ciia are activated. Avoid romance for 20 minutes after > pulsatile irrigaton. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > http://www.TinnitusRelief.net > http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm

Response:

no matter how hard I try to expell the liquid, a few hours later and I bend over and…..        Jon     yes, that is when the ciia are activated. Avoid romance for 20 minutes after pulsatile irrigaton. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm

Response:

 Dr Grossan has said the same thing, I believe. Not so. What I said is: Pulsatile irrigation does cause fluid to enter the sinus to displace the pus/mucus in the sinus. How much and which sinus depends on current openings, head position, etc. This is why we tell the patient not to have romance for 20 minutes after pulsatile irrigation. That’s when the cilia start to move the fluid out and it can come out with "romance" in an unromantic manner all 20 or more cc of it. But the entrance / exit of the fluid is not the theraputic key here. It is removal of the thick mucus reduction of the bacterial toxin and fungal toxin load reduction of biofilm covering some bacteria restoring cilia function so that they can clear the sinus in the natural way.   If there is an anotomical blockage to the sinus, the fluid will not be able to enter. But this is uncommon in the general office population. The patients that we see in my office have already had three of the latest antibiotics, weeks of cortisone sprays, various allergy pills and Neti Pot, rubber bulbs, etc etc etc So the pulsatile irrigator is for these persons. If you don’t have a nasal/ sinus problems then you don’t need the pulsatile irrigator. If salne with benzalkonium works for you then you don’t need a benzalkonium free product. However judging from the patients we get, lots of people can benefit by pulsatile irrigation and using benzalkonium free solutions of modified Lactate Ringer’s solution. There is no question that people can get well without the Hydro Pulse.    These persons don’t fit into the statistic of the 35 million persons with sinusitis that the Academy of Otolaryngology speaks of. But if you are not getting well, you should discuss with your doctor about your cilia function and if necessary, what you can do about healing it. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm

Response:

Hello …. I agree with Oliver’s words. The way I see it, if one can flush out the blobs of yellow mucus etc., then there is a definite link between the infection and the outside world. Even if the solution doesn’t completely penetrate the sinuses, keeping the inside of the nasal passages as clean as possible can only facilitate drainage.  At any rate,  I believe a certain amount of solution must work it’s way into some of the sinuses, for no matter how hard I try to expell the liquid, a few hours later and I bend over and…..        Jon    

Response:

On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 03:41:23 GMT, "Oliver" <oliver1…@yahoo.com> wrote: >I’m probably going to start up a fire storm of controversy here, but I agree >with your doctor.  I do not feel that irrigation actually floods the >sinuses.  Rather, it floods and rinses the nasal passages, and floods and >rinses a few of the sinus openings.  I think it rinses the ethmoid and >maxillary sinus openings the most effectively.  The irrigation fluid is >going to follow the path of least resistance, which at least in my case, is >up one nostrile until it reaches the passegways to the throught, or the >other nasal passage way.  Then, it goes out.

No storm at all.  Dr Grossan has said the same thing, I believe.        

Response:

Hi, Tuesday’s CT scan says my sinuses are ok, but I still think my head would feel better if I hooked a FIRE HOSE to my nose and blasted my sinuses with water (or something). My question:  Do the Water Pik and Grossan device wash the "nose" OR do they reach way, way, up into the "sinuses"??  When asked about sinus irrigation, my Dr. said there was no irrigating the "sinus".   Hmm???? thanks in advance! (tia) dan

Response:

I’m probably going to start up a fire storm of controversy here, but I agree with your doctor.  I do not feel that irrigation actually floods the sinuses.  Rather, it floods and rinses the nasal passages, and floods and rinses a few of the sinus openings.  I think it rinses the ethmoid and maxillary sinus openings the most effectively.  The irrigation fluid is going to follow the path of least resistance, which at least in my case, is up one nostrile until it reaches the passegways to the throught, or the other nasal passage way.  Then, it goes out. Never the less, rinsing the openings and flushing the nasal passageways still provides considerable relief.  If the nasal passages are flooded and jamed up with mucus, there is no way that mucus that is still in the sinuses is going to make it through the openings, and out the nasal passegeways. So, keeping the nose clear is a good step.  Plus, the salene solution sooths and rinses the sinus openings, which can reduce inflamation there, making it more likely that mucus will be able to get out of the sinuses, and then out through the nose. Keep in mind, that I am not a doctor, and that the above is just my opinion on what happens to me, when I irrigate.  If someone can teach me how to get fluid actually into the sinuses, then I’m all ears.  I am also a converted irrigation skeptic.  It helps, quite a bit. I’d try it if I was in your place.  I’d start with a cheep ear bulb, and if you like it, spend the money to try the water pick out. Here is a cool link that I found while searching for a picture of the nasal passegeways to support my "nasal" irrigation theory.  I did’nt find a good pic, but they have some pretty cool info here….  http://www.entnet.org/ Oliver "Jim-Bob" <luvo…@utk.edu> wrote in message

news:3d6d1e78$1_4@news.utk.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, > Tuesday’s CT scan says my sinuses are ok, but I still think my head would > feel better if I hooked a FIRE HOSE to my nose and blasted my sinuses with > water (or something). > My question:  Do the Water Pik and Grossan device wash the "nose" OR do they > reach way, way, up into the "sinuses"??  When asked about sinus irrigation, > my Dr. said there was no irrigating the "sinus".   Hmm???? > thanks in advance! (tia) > dan

Response:

Filed under: Sinusitis Antibiotics

Related Posts

• My hair hurts!
• have i missed graffs post?
• ceftin
• Help for my dad
• Cipro Drops for Sinuses?
• Sinus won't drain
• differentiating sinusitis and colds
• Please answer these questions for me
• Fisture
• Peculiar (and frustrating) PND problem - any ideas?