Is a 3.5 Engineering GPA Equal 4.0 Biology GPA? Haveing a M.D. in the Family is more Important!

Question:

Back in the early eighties, engineers had like a twice as high admission rate to med school than did liberal arts majors. Still, one of my bioengineering classmates ended up going to Granada (and being rescued by the US Army). — Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia’81+, Bioengineer-Financier, NYC Bach-Mozart ReaganQuayleGramm Evrytano-Kastorian Cit:MarquisWhWFinanc&Indus —{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}—

Response:

The current system is bringing in people that can memerize but can’t figure shit out. People who can memorize, maybe… But what about people who can’t SPELL?? -sm

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Response:

he average GPA at some medschools are typically 3.6 or 3.7. The median is about 3.5. However, most of the people who have this GPA are biological sciences/biochemistry/chemistry, etc. , which is easier than Electrical Engineering or engineering for that matter. When I interview (if I kmake the cut), will they consider my major? If so, what is more impressive: a 3.5 in Engineering or a 3.9 in biological sciences? Arun

I think this is the wrong question to ask. A GPA has very little relevance as a means of measurement for comparison between people coming from different schools, or even different departments within a school. I go to the University of Washington and I found a study done of grading at this school and the average grade given for all classes at the school is 3.15, the average for physical and biological sciences was 2.9, the average for business was 3.3, the average for art was 3.4 (because art teachers hate grading) and the average for engineering was 3.2. The GPA a person has totally depends upon where teachers tend to center their curve, how competitive your school is and where you fit in in relation to this (Many average students at MIT would be top of the class if they went to a bad college where the only admission criteria is having money), and random factors. I think you are wrong in your assumption that biochemistry is an easy subject. Have you even taken it? Maybe there is something wrong with the program at your school if you are underchallenged.

Response:

As a former pre-med advisor at a campus noted for med school acceptances, I can tell you that your major is not really a relevant factor. They will look at your average over thespecific courses required for medical school–and will be ecstatic if that average is high and your major is philosophy or literature! Diversity you know.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dropped in here at MEMland to favor us with the following article he average GPA at some medschools are typically 3.6 or 3.7. The median is about 3.5. However, most of the people who have this GPA are biological sciences/biochemistry/chemistry, etc. , which is easier than Electrical Engineering or engineering for that matter. When I interview (if I kmake the cut), will they consider my major? If so, what is more impressive: a 3.5 in Engineering or a 3.9 in biological sciences? Arun Both are more impressive. :) Actually, I have always thought that GPA in the med admissions game is probably not quite as important as some people make it out to be. Sure, no one with a 2.1 is going to get in and no one with a 4.0 is going to be outright rejected unless some very interesting and special circumstances are present.

I’ve heard haveing a M.D. in the family is a BIG Help. From some people I have spoken with on admissions here, GPA seems to be more of a "first cut" tool than a deciding factor. You know, the cut to where interviews are offered – things like GPA and MCAT and other, more "objective" (not that GPA is really objective, though) measures are used. Once you get to the interview, most of that goes out the window. If you make a bad interview impression and come across as someone who would not make a good medical student and a good doctor, you won’t get in even with a 4.0 and a 40+ on your MCAT. Admissions committees have grown to recognize those "book-smart" applicants who come across like the child of Charles Manson and Andrew Dice Clay in the interview. You are much more likely to be accepted if you come across as a caring and thinking person who seems genuinely interested in medicine and in doing what it takes to be a doctor, even if your GPA is "only" 3.5 and your MCAT is "only" in the lower

I had a friend who got in the top 99 percentile on the MCAT and didn’t get in because he looked like Charles Manson or John Lennon. To keep truth seeking Hippies out of the Medical Establishment seems more of an Aristrocratic Power play than a real concern for our people. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your major will be considered in your interview, more likely as a topic of conversation though than as a justification of a lower GPA. Med schools are looking for diversity in their classes – look at the pushes for more minorities and more women in today’s classes. Along with that, they seek people coming from a variety of different backgrounds and majors. A class filled with 150 Biochemistry white males who volunteered because they had to and who each had a 4.0 and 41 on the MCAT would be boring as hell. Engineering, English, music, history, languages, and on and on – these people provide a needed and fresh view on medicine within each class. So being an Engineering major is certainly not a bad thing for med school application. And that should never even be a factor in choosing a major. I chose Biology in college even though it really did not interest me, simply because it was what all of my friends were doing and it was what I thought the medical schools would want to see. With a chance to turn back the clock, I could think of at least three other areas that I would have majored in before Biology, and none of the three is even a physical science. So use college as your opportunity to explore the areas that interest you and don’t worry about conforming to what you consider to be the portrait of the "ideal" medical school candidate.

Lots of hurtles to stop guys from studying medicine. I’ve had biochem and I don’t think most doctors can even discuss the biochem of their speciality better than I can. The focus of medicine should be the science and it should be the insurance companies to decide what knowledge is necessary to practice. I find most doctors don’t like to get into the details of the biochemisty and pathophysiology of a desease as much as I do so makeing these courses so important to study medicine is inconsistant with the practice. It’s like requiring field theory for working in electical enginnering and computers. Totally absurd. You know Tim, I bet you can’t put together an impressive explanation of a simple medical pathology, like say Ostio Artharitis that’s as good as I can yet you back the necessity of a 4.0 in BioChem. I think BioCHem is long overdue for a computer language myself. Memerizing the pathways thru the TCA cycle is like memerizing the UNIX kernel. Tools are a lot more important. The current system is bringing in people that can memerize but can’t figure shit out. Seem like have the shit in Harrisons Pathology could be nonsense that is being memerized from one due to the next with little concern for building a model of the pathologies. Because there isn’t one. Good luck in the whole process. Tim Cramm M-4 University of Arkansas (*wistfully looking back to his days at Wash. U…*)

– Pete Delaney

Response:

The MCAT is only one very very small variable in the medical school admissions process. Just because someone knows a lot of science and can write an essay doesn’t mean that he/she will be a good doctor. The most important thing in being a doctor is the way that you interact with patients. You know, Pete, I hate to do this but I am going to agree with you. You DON’T have to be a megaintelligent wunderkind to be a doctor. It’s true – a lot of the work is memorization (at least in the first two years) and after that there are well-definied algorithms that can be learned. The research doctors are probably the most intelligent ones. BUT, intelligence is not the big factor at play. A doctor is someone who can talk a patient into quitting smoking. A doctor is someone who can convince a diabetic to please stay on her diet better. A doctor is someone who can tell a family that their child has cancer and provide support for them. Doctors treat everyone from age one minute to age one hundred, and they have to be able to interact with each of those people. I would very seriously doubt that your friend did not get in because he looked like Manson/Lennon. More probably, he said something in his interviews that made him sound like Manson. If the whole thing was about grades and MCATs, then why would they have interviews in the first place? I am sure it is a lot of fun for the people on the committeess to add a thousand hours or so of extra work each year to their calendars just to meet with applicants – they wouldn’t be doing it if it wasn’t the deciding factor in the process. I like the process, personally. Tim Cramm M-4 University of Arkansas (Dr. Manson, another amputation in OR 5…)

Response:

the Family is more Important! I had a friend who got in the top 99 percentile on the MCAT and didn’t get in because he looked like Charles Manson or John Lennon. To keep truth seeking Hippies out of the Medical Establishment seems more of an Aristrocratic Power play than a real concern for our people.

Actually, this was more of an IQ test than anything. The admissions guys want to know if you are smart and flexible enough socially to play the game long enough to get in. Then you can do as you damn well please. Basically, they do not really care if you look or think like a "hippy" or not. Hell, many of them were the same. As for academic smarts.. Mostly, somewhere between fixin’ cars and fixin’ TV’s. Anybody who can make it in can make it thru. People skills are much more important. One famous true story involves a diagnosed idiot savant with a photographic memory and a lot of hussle who made it thru med school. He was only discovered when he started screwing up in his residency. BTW, doctorin’ ain’t what it used to be… _ IF_ you can get a job when you get out, it still won’t pay for the lost opportunity costs of all that education and those long hours. Better make sure you really wanna do this.. Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD

Response:

The current system is bringing in people that can memerize but can’t figure shit out.

People who can memorize, maybe… But what about people who can’t SPELL?? -sm

Response:

The current system is bringing in people that can memerize but can’t figure shit out. People who can memorize, maybe… But what about people who can’t SPELL??

Not very important. Like how a person is dressed. English is a very poor language for spelling, German is much better in this regard. The beauty of English is the grammer and the anything goes flexability. You can’t read the handwriteing of most M.D. now anyway so having corect spelling would be nice but just being able to make out the letters in their writing would be a 100x more important to me. If my perscription say it’s for Pete, Piet, Peet, I don’t really care. -piet — Pete Delaney

Response:

Filed under: Pathophysiology

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