Sinusitis FAQ

OT The Headache Saga Continues

admin — Fri, 17 Mar 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

It was better for a few days but now I am convinced it is sinusitis again. My ENT, bless his soul, wouldn’t make me come back in since I will be having the CT scan next Friday and since I have only so many referrals he didn’t want me to waste one since I have to see him the week after the CT scan. I had called his nurse early, and he was in surgery. She said she could call me in an antibiotic but nothing for the pain. I hate taking pain meds anyway, even though I have tried the 800mg Ibuprofen with no relief. Anyway when he got in his office he told her to call me in an antibiotic called Omnicef and some Darvocet for my pain. I finally took one of the Darvocet and gradually my head eased off, not totally, but better than it was. I’ve known this doctor for 20 years or more and there is one thing about him, he is not going to let you be in pain. He knows me and if I ask for somethng he knows I must be hurting. He has problems with his sinuses too and knows how it feels. Anyway, I got some help and I did ask the pharmacist how these meds mix with the other meds I am taking. She said I would just probably be really sleepy, but I was no more sleepy than I had been. Just glad I have gotten some relief. Thanks for listening. Anyone who has ever had a bad headache knows how crippling it can be. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

And I’m one of those people, Vicki. I feel so bad for you! {{{{{Vicki}}}}} I hope the meds help you and that they find something they can fix easily. Let us know what happens after the CT scan. Thinking of you. Love, Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was better for a few days but now I am convinced it is sinusitis again. My ENT, bless his soul, wouldn’t make me come back in since I will be having the CT scan next Friday and since I have only so many referrals he didn’t want me to waste one since I have to see him the week after the CT scan. I had called his nurse early, and he was in surgery. She said she could call me in an antibiotic but nothing for the pain. I hate taking pain meds anyway, even though I have tried the 800mg Ibuprofen with no relief. Anyway when he got in his office he told her to call me in an antibiotic called Omnicef and some Darvocet for my pain. I finally took one of the Darvocet and gradually my head eased off, not totally, but better than it was. I’ve known this doctor for 20 years or more and there is one thing about him, he is not going to let you be in pain. He knows me and if I ask for somethng he knows I must be hurting. He has problems with his sinuses too and knows how it feels. Anyway, I got some help and I did ask the pharmacist how these meds mix with the other meds I am taking. She said I would just probably be really sleepy, but I was no more sleepy than I had been. Just glad I have gotten some relief. Thanks for listening. Anyone who has ever had a bad headache knows how crippling it can be. Vicki

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thanks for listening. Anyone who has ever had a bad headache knows how crippling it can be. Vicki

You bet!! Good luck in managing this Vicki. ((((((((Vicki))))))))) — Ron P I’m an EXPERT….a has-been under pressure<;-) — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thanks, Di. You are a sweetheart. Love, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Thanks for listening. Anyone who has ever had a bad headache knows how crippling it can be. Vicki You bet!! Good luck in managing this Vicki. ((((((((Vicki))))))))) — Ron P

Thanks Ron! I appreciate you. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Ow, Vicki… here’s hoping your headache pain goes away soon. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sorry you’re feeling rotten Vicki. Do changes in the weather affect your sinuses? Humidity? My sinuses have always given me problems. — Doug

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do changes in the weather affect your sinuses? Humidity? My sinuses have always given me problems.

Sounds like vasomotor rhinitis. Changes in the humidity or air temperature can result in nasal obstuction/congestion or runny (watery) nasal discharge. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sorry you’re feeling rotten Vicki. Do changes in the weather affect your sinuses? Humidity? My sinuses have always given me problems.

Yes the weather changes do bother me at times. Plus, after Katrina, there is all kinds of stuff in the air. My ENT said he has seen more people in the last months than he has ever seen in the same amount of months. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

a neuroscientific basis for using benzos in panic disorder

admin — Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2005 May;30(3):167-75. Selective GABAergic treatment for panic? Investigations in experimental panic induction and panic disorder. Zwanzger P, Rupprecht R. Anxiety Research Unit and Anxiety Outpatient Clinic, Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitat, Munich, Germany. Gamma-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the *most important inhibitory neurotransmitter* in the central nervous system (CNS). It exerts its rapid inhibitory action mostly through *GABA(A) receptors*, which are targets for *benzodiazepines*, barbiturates, neuroactive steroids and distinct *anticonvulsive agents*. **There is considerable evidence that dysfunction of GABA(A) receptors or dysregulation of GABA concentrations in the CNS (or both) plays an important role in the pathophysiology of panic disorder**. Currently, benzodiazepines are the only drugs directly targeting the GABA(A) receptors that are approved for the treatment of anxiety disorders. Because of their well-known anxiolytic effects, they are widely used in this setting, but *side effects limit their use in long-term treatment* (note: that’s controversial. I’ve been on Klonopin for 19 years). The question of whether drugs that selectively *increase GABA concentrations* in the CNS could improve symptoms of anxiety has been discussed. Recent investigations by our group have demonstrated that enhancement of endogenous GABA (through blockade of *GABA transaminase* by vigabatrin, or through *inhibition of GABA transporters* by tiagabine) exerts anxiolytic effects on experimentally induced panic. (Note: the above vigabatrin inhibits the breakdown of GABA by GABA transaminase, and thus increases GABA concentration. It will not be approved in the USA because a side effect is impairment of vision. The above tiagabine, trade name *Gabitril*, is now available in the USA as an anticonvulsant. It inhibits the reuptake of GABA, and thus increases GABA concentration.) Our studies in *healthy volunteers* have shown that both compounds lead to a significant reduction in panic symptoms elicited by cholecystokinin-tetrapeptide (CCK-4). Moreover, benzodiazepine-like effects on the activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis have been observed in association with vigabatrin treatment. Small open studies in patients with panic disorder also showed an improvement in panic and anxiety with both compounds. This review summarizes our recent research on the effects of selective GABAergic treatment in experimentally induced panic and outlines the possible role of compounds targeting the GABA binding site of the GABA(A)-benzodiazepine receptor for the treatment of panic and anxiety. PMID: 15944741 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

— The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2005 May;30(3):167-75. Selective GABAergic treatment for panic? Investigations in experimental panic induction and panic disorder. Zwanzger P, Rupprecht R. … Currently, benzodiazepines are the only drugs directly targeting the GABA(A) receptors that are approved for the treatment of anxiety disorders. Because of their well-known anxiolytic effects, they are widely used in this setting, but *side effects limit their use in long-term treatment* (note: that’s controversial. I’ve been on Klonopin for 19 years).

I’ll second that! I’ve been using alprazolam (Xanax) for about a decade now and have yet to experience adverse side effects nor increased dependence (works as well now as it did when I started). My dosage is purely PRN (some days I use none at all, up to 3 or rarely 4-mg during very bad days, on average about 1.5-mg per day). Best Wishes, Arthur — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’ve been taking .75 mgs per day of Xanax for about 3 weeks now, after a SEVERE panic attack (combined w/ hyperventilation) which sent me to the ER (it was my first attack I thought I was having a heart attack, despite the fact that I’m only 35 yrs old.) I love it – I can’t believe how much it has helped me! I only hope that my doctor keeps prescribing it for me, as I think it is working very well and don’t need see any need to switch. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

It likely has to do with profit margins, but that’s just a guess on my part. I would be interested to know what kind of profit percentage drug companies make on, for instance, generic clonazepam, and compare it to that of name-brand Wellbutrin or Prozac. I wonder if that information is available to the general public. Deirdre

The profit margins are huge for non-generic medications sold in the USA. There are a few factors for this. 1. There is a very large initial outlay of money to bring a new medication to market. The research has to be done. Then all the trial studies to prove the medication is safe and effective so it can get FDA approval. Once on the market, the non-generic medication has a limited time that it is patent protected. This time period is where the pharmaceutical company can charge crazy prices so it can get back the initial costs and make a profit before the generics are allowed. 2. Here in the USA we pay more for the same medication than most other places in the world. We (USA) are subsidizing medications for most of the world. The pharmaceutical companies say they "donate" medications to needy nations/people around the world. The pharmaceutical companies are not really doing that. They are selling medications in those places as cost or a small loss, while they recoup it all here in the USA. Our close neighbors in Canada can get the same medication for a lot less than we have to pay here in the USA. I only see two solutions. 1. Make *all* medical research sponsored by tax dollars only. This way all the fruits of this research will be in the *public domain*. Any private company can then use that research. Since anyone can use this research the only thing companies can do is *compete*. They will have to compete on prices/services. 2. Go to a full socialized health system similar to Denmark. A friend of mine is from Denmark and according to her the health system there is much, much better. Everyone is covered. No one has to worry about whether they will eat or get their medication. Jim — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – why is the general opinion of most psychiatrists in favor of ssri’s over benzo’s for anxiety and panic? what is their problem with benzo’s? They usually site 3 reasons: 1) benzos can cause dependence (but so can antidepressants) 2) benzos can cause a withdrawal syndrome when stopped (so can antidepressants) 3) benzos are "addictive" (studies have shown that benzo abuse is rare in people with anxiety disorders) And another factor is that psychiatry professors who teach residents and write the psychiatric textbooks are very often paid consultants by the manufacturers of antidepressants. I am uncertain to what extent this biases them against benzos and for antidepressants. Chip

Response:

chip,

I’ve been on an SSRI, Zoloft, to prevent depression for several years, and it works. But I think the benzos are better for anxiety. thats why i keep wrestling with the thought that i would be better off on a benzo instead. i hate not knowing who to trust, we put our lives in these pdocs hands…and to think that their hands may be controlled by the strings of corporations makes me very uneasy.

You make some good points, Russ. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

why is the general opinion of most psychiatrists in favor of ssri’s over benzo’s for anxiety and panic? what is their problem with benzo’s?

SSRI’s are hyped up big time while benzos are (wrongly) felt to be *addictive*. They should do their homework. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

chip,

Response:

why is the general opinion of most psychiatrists in favor of ssri’s over benzo’s for anxiety and panic? what is their problem with benzo’s? — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

why is the general opinion of most psychiatrists in favor of ssri’s over benzo’s for anxiety and panic? what is their problem with benzo’s?

They usually site 3 reasons: 1) benzos can cause dependence (but so can antidepressants) 2) benzos can cause a withdrawal syndrome when stopped (so can antidepressants) 3) benzos are "addictive" (studies have shown that benzo abuse is rare in people with anxiety disorders) And another factor is that psychiatry professors who teach residents and write the psychiatric textbooks are very often paid consultants by the manufacturers of antidepressants. I am uncertain to what extent this biases them against benzos and for antidepressants. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

J Psychiatry Neurosci. 2005 May;30(3):167-75. Selective GABAergic treatment for panic? Investigations in experimental panic induction and panic disorder.

I’ve *never* heard of anybody having any success with Gabitril. Of course I haven’t read the study itself but I’m far from convinced. Philip (gimme a benzo any time) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zwanzger P, Rupprecht R. Anxiety Research Unit and Anxiety Outpatient Clinic, Department of Psychiatry, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitat, Munich, Germany. Gamma-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) is the *most important inhibitory neurotransmitter* in the central nervous system (CNS). It exerts its rapid inhibitory action mostly through *GABA(A) receptors*, which are targets for *benzodiazepines*, barbiturates, neuroactive steroids and distinct *anticonvulsive agents*. **There is considerable evidence that dysfunction of GABA(A) receptors or dysregulation of GABA concentrations in the CNS (or both) plays an important role in the pathophysiology of panic disorder**. Currently, benzodiazepines are the only drugs directly targeting the GABA(A) receptors that are approved for the treatment of anxiety disorders. Because of their well-known anxiolytic effects, they are widely used in this setting, but *side effects limit their use in long-term treatment* (note: that’s controversial. I’ve been on Klonopin for 19 years). The question of whether drugs that selectively *increase GABA concentrations* in the CNS could improve symptoms of anxiety has been discussed. Recent investigations by our group have demonstrated that enhancement of endogenous GABA (through blockade of *GABA transaminase* by vigabatrin, or through *inhibition of GABA transporters* by tiagabine) exerts anxiolytic effects on experimentally induced panic. (Note: the above vigabatrin inhibits the breakdown of GABA by GABA transaminase, and thus increases GABA concentration. It will not be approved in the USA because a side effect is impairment of vision. The above tiagabine, trade name *Gabitril*, is now available in the USA as an anticonvulsant. It inhibits the reuptake of GABA, and thus increases GABA concentration.) Our studies in *healthy volunteers* have shown that both compounds lead to a significant reduction in panic symptoms elicited by cholecystokinin-tetrapeptide (CCK-4). Moreover, benzodiazepine-like effects on the activity of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis have been observed in association with vigabatrin treatment. Small open studies in patients with panic disorder also showed an improvement in panic and anxiety with both compounds. This review summarizes our recent research on the effects of selective GABAergic treatment in experimentally induced panic and outlines the possible role of compounds targeting the GABA binding site of the GABA(A)-benzodiazepine receptor for the treatment of panic and anxiety. PMID: 15944741 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Balloon Sinuplasty

admin — Sat, 31 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Here is an update on my visit with Dr. Hwang at Stanford. He said my case was too complicated to do the balloon sinuplasty. He only recommends it to patients who have blockages in the maxillary, sphenoid and frontal sinuses–the sinuses which have a single ostia. Those that have multiple openings–the ethymoid–cannot be treated as effectively with the balloon. I also have haller cells, a maxillary cyst, and a deviated septum that needs correction. I was disappointed, but appreciated his kind and through explaination of the procedure and so have decided to have him do my surgery in three weeks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don Brady wrote: > On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 01:32:44 GMT, "Steven L." > wrote: > >I understand how this is supposed to work, > >but I don’t understand what the point is, for many patients. > >Many patients with sinusitis (myself included) have a deviated septum > >and also diseased and thickened sinus linings, all of which have to be > >dealt with surgically anyway. So as long as the surgeon is doing > >surgery on my septum and sinuses, widening out the ostia is just one > >small part of it. > >In my most recent surgery, the culprit was a pus-filled mucocele in one > >of my left ethmoids. Just widening out the ostia wouldn’t have gotten > >rid of that thing. > >Is there any evidence that just widening out the ostia causes everything > >else in the sinuses to magically cure itself? > Well I think that widening the ostia is often the primary surgical procedure > performed, and often does allow the sinuses to recover with the better air > flow. > I am sure that conventional surgery will still have a role, even if the new > procedure (which is really just in trial phase) does become common. > Here’s one article: > http://www.newsdial.com/sinusitis/balloon-sinuplasty.html

Response:

On 21 Jan 2006 12:00:14 -0800, "afisher39" wrote: >Here is an update on my visit with Dr. Hwang at Stanford. He said my >case was too complicated to do the balloon sinuplasty. He only >recommends it to patients who have blockages in the maxillary, sphenoid >and frontal sinuses–the sinuses which have a single ostia. Those that >have multiple openings–the ethymoid–cannot be treated as effectively >with the balloon. I also have haller cells, a maxillary cyst, and a >deviated septum that needs correction. I was disappointed, but >appreciated his kind and through explaination of the procedure and so >have decided to have him do my surgery in three weeks.

Thanks for posting the information. He sounds to be a good bet to do your surgery. Peopel who are so proficient with surgery that they are refining the state of the art are the kind of people I would want to do surgery (provide they are nto experimenting too much, but this does not sound to be a risk here)…..

Response:

Your welcome. Thanks for your take on my doctor’s proficiency. To be honest, I didn’t check him out throughly, just went with the reputation of Stanford (he’s the director of the sinus clinic) and a few mentions on this forum. In my state (New Mexico) I was going to have to go out of state anyway.

Response:

Recently??? I had this done numerous times almost 10 years ago!! It worked for a while, maybe 3 months, then back to the same old, same old. BR "augustwestern" wrote in message

news:_pOdnZ6s15EveyveRVn-oA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "afisher39" wrote in message > news:1136058652.471721.178970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… >> Has anyone tried balloon sinuplasty? It recently became available. A >> ballon catheter is inserted into the nostrils and inflated to widen the >> ostia. >> I have an appointment with Dr. Perter Hwang at the Standford Sinus >> Center Jan 23 to see I’m a candidate. Has anyone here seen Dr. Hwang? >> For more information, go to acclarent.com which also lists the >> physicians qualified to do this procedure. > I have seen Dr Peter Hwang. He returned to practice at Stanford earlier > this > year. I was very impressed by him. I have not had the procedure you are > asking about done. Dr Hwang was very familiar with the Hydropulse and said > that for me daily saline irrigations were a must if I was to avoid > surgery. > He also taught me a lot about using intranasal Bactroban. AW

Response:

Has anyone tried balloon sinuplasty? It recently became available. A ballon catheter is inserted into the nostrils and inflated to widen the ostia. I have an appointment with Dr. Perter Hwang at the Standford Sinus Center Jan 23 to see I’m a candidate. Has anyone here seen Dr. Hwang? For more information, go to acclarent.com which also lists the physicians qualified to do this procedure.

Response:

"afisher39" wrote in message

news:1136058652.471721.178970@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > Has anyone tried balloon sinuplasty? It recently became available. A > ballon catheter is inserted into the nostrils and inflated to widen the > ostia. > I have an appointment with Dr. Perter Hwang at the Standford Sinus > Center Jan 23 to see I’m a candidate. Has anyone here seen Dr. Hwang? > For more information, go to acclarent.com which also lists the > physicians qualified to do this procedure.

I have seen Dr Peter Hwang. He returned to practice at Stanford earlier this year. I was very impressed by him. I have not had the procedure you are asking about done. Dr Hwang was very familiar with the Hydropulse and said that for me daily saline irrigations were a must if I was to avoid surgery. He also taught me a lot about using intranasal Bactroban. AW

Response:

Thanks for your reply AW and your endorsement of Dr. Hwang. Do you take intranasal Bactroban only when you have an infection or as a prophylactic during flu season?

Response:

"afisher39" wrote in message

news:1136061336.447310.270130@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > Thanks for your reply AW and your endorsement of Dr. Hwang. Do you take > intranasal Bactroban only when you have an infection or as a > prophylactic during flu season?

Only when I am absolutely sure I have a sinus infection. Never prophylactic. Intranasal Bactroban was suggested to me because of my history of staph related problems. YMMV from mine. AW

Response:

Do you mind telling me how were you diagnosed with staph? What does YMMV mean?

Response:

afisher39 wrote: > Has anyone tried balloon sinuplasty? It recently became available. A > ballon catheter is inserted into the nostrils and inflated to widen the > ostia. > I have an appointment with Dr. Perter Hwang at the Standford Sinus > Center Jan 23 to see I’m a candidate. Has anyone here seen Dr. Hwang? > For more information, go to acclarent.com which also lists the > physicians qualified to do this procedure.

I understand how this is supposed to work, but I don’t understand what the point is, for many patients. Many patients with sinusitis (myself included) have a deviated septum and also diseased and thickened sinus linings, all of which have to be dealt with surgically anyway. So as long as the surgeon is doing surgery on my septum and sinuses, widening out the ostia is just one small part of it. In my most recent surgery, the culprit was a pus-filled mucocele in one of my left ethmoids. Just widening out the ostia wouldn’t have gotten rid of that thing. Is there any evidence that just widening out the ostia causes everything else in the sinuses to magically cure itself? — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Steven, I have the same question as you, which I’ll pose to Dr. Hwang. Clearly, not everyone is a candidate for balloon sinoplasty. My understanding so far is that in some cases, simply widening the ostia will allow drainage so bacteria and fungi do not have the opportunity to proliferate. Then, if the lining isn’t that badly damaged, it will heal on its own. I wish I had more information at this time, but will write back with the result of my appointment. There is a bit more information on the medical provider tab of the acclarent.com website and a video.

Response:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 01:32:44 GMT, "Steven L." wrote: >I understand how this is supposed to work, >but I don’t understand what the point is, for many patients. >Many patients with sinusitis (myself included) have a deviated septum >and also diseased and thickened sinus linings, all of which have to be >dealt with surgically anyway. So as long as the surgeon is doing >surgery on my septum and sinuses, widening out the ostia is just one >small part of it. >In my most recent surgery, the culprit was a pus-filled mucocele in one >of my left ethmoids. Just widening out the ostia wouldn’t have gotten >rid of that thing. >Is there any evidence that just widening out the ostia causes everything >else in the sinuses to magically cure itself?

Well I think that widening the ostia is often the primary surgical procedure performed, and often does allow the sinuses to recover with the better air flow. I am sure that conventional surgery will still have a role, even if the new procedure (which is really just in trial phase) does become common. Here’s one article: http://www.newsdial.com/sinusitis/balloon-sinuplasty.html

Response:

Dr. Hwang’s office told me that the trials have been completed, but not published yet.

Response:

"afisher39" wrote in message

news:1136066990.654597.26350@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > Do you mind telling me how were you diagnosed with staph? What does > YMMV mean?

Staph germs, which are ubiquitious in our environment, can become colonized in the nose where they can either live with no bad effects or cause various kinds of skin problems and also contribute to some sinus infections. I have a history of staph related skin problems. YMMV means Your Mileage or experiences May Vary from mine – because I didn’t want to imply that intranasal Bactroban was appropriate for all suspected sinus infections. It’s my understanding that most people have a variety of germs colonized in their nose which may or may not cause illness. I was also told that my nose is colonized with pseudomonas which as far as I know hasn’t caused me any problems. AW

Response:

afisher39 wrote: > Steven, > I have the same question as you, which I’ll pose to Dr. Hwang. Clearly, > not everyone is a candidate for balloon sinoplasty. My understanding > so far is that in some cases, simply widening the ostia will allow > drainage so bacteria and fungi do not have the opportunity to > proliferate. Then, if the lining isn’t that badly damaged, it will heal > on its own.

If so, that’s definitely not my situation. I have had cysts and pus-filled mucoceles growing inside sinuses *after* the ostia were widened surgically. This balloon sinuplasty sounds like a procedure just for very mild sinusitis–the next step up from Sudafed. Ask Dr. Hwang if they are trying it out on severe sinusitis patients or just mild cases. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:45:20 GMT, "Steven L." wrote: >> Well I think that widening the ostia is often the primary surgical procedure >> performed, and often does allow the sinuses to recover with the better air >> flow. >You think it will largely eliminate the need for septoplasty?

That will probably still be required in its present form. I know that septoplasty is often needed, but it is not always needed. Maybe the best way to think of the new tool, hype aside, will be as just another variation of surgical instrumentation,. for use often in combination with others. The are already a number of them and innovations will keep occurring…….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Don Brady wrote: > On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 01:32:44 GMT, "Steven L." > wrote: >>I understand how this is supposed to work, >>but I don’t understand what the point is, for many patients. >>Many patients with sinusitis (myself included) have a deviated septum >>and also diseased and thickened sinus linings, all of which have to be >>dealt with surgically anyway. So as long as the surgeon is doing >>surgery on my septum and sinuses, widening out the ostia is just one >>small part of it. >>In my most recent surgery, the culprit was a pus-filled mucocele in one >>of my left ethmoids. Just widening out the ostia wouldn’t have gotten >>rid of that thing. >>Is there any evidence that just widening out the ostia causes everything >>else in the sinuses to magically cure itself? > Well I think that widening the ostia is often the primary surgical procedure > performed, and often does allow the sinuses to recover with the better air > flow.

You think it will largely eliminate the need for septoplasty? — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

You think it will largely eliminate the need for septoplasty? My sinusitis is very asymmetric–it’s always much worse on my left side–reflecting how my septum was originally deviated. And as I said, I had to have revision surgery because the surgeon of my first surgery thought that the ostia to one of my ethmoids was wide enough. So he left that ethmoid alone, resulting in my having to have a revision surgery to remove the mucocele that was growing inside there. Sorry, I don’t buy this whole thing, based on my own experience. This "balloon sinuplasty" looks to be a great way for patients to end up having revision surgeries to fix all the things that the balloon sinuplasty didn’t fix. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

MRI or Cat Scan?

admin — Tue, 27 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Being new to this..What is the best way to determine Sinus Infection.Are MRI ever used? In the Sinus Cat Scan of the Facial area only? Thanks

Response:

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:35:53 -0500, "Richard Trembley" wrote: >Being new to this..What is the best way to determine Sinus Infection.Are MRI >ever used? In the Sinus Cat Scan of the Facial area only? Thanks

The CAT scan is generally used pretty universally for the sinuses. It shows all sinuses. You might use an MRI in the specail case where you suspect cancer or fungal sinusitis, but otherwise it is inferior. http://adam.about.com/reports/000062_5.htm "Magnetic Resonance Imaging. MRI is not as effective as CT in defining the paranasal sinsus anatomy and therefore is not typically used to image the sinuses for suspected sinusitis. MRI is also more expensive than CT. However, it can help rule out fungal sinusitis and may help differentiate between inflammatory disease, malignant tumors, and complications within the skull."

Response:

The CT scan is the way to go. Make sure they do a full sinus CT scan and not a ‘head CT’ or a ‘limited sinus CT’. One thing to do is to get any sinus CTs you have on a CD for your records. Most places do this for free and include a viewer with the CT scans so you can take it to another doctor if you get a second opinion. Most ENT doctors will want to look at the actual CT scans not the written radiology report. For me, all I had to do was call up the radiology department 2 or 3 days before pickup, request the CT scans on CD, and fill out and sign a form when I picked the CD up.

Response:

SINUS TOOTHACHE

admin — Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On 12/26/05 4:53 PM, in article 20208-43B09099-…@storefull-3257.bay.webtv.net, "Johnny1…@webtv.net" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > rtrembl…@comcast.net (Richard

Is there any connection between labyrinthitis and sinusitis?

admin — Wed, 14 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Suffered from labyrinthitis last year for 2 months or so. Have had chronic sinusitis for 5 months or so of this year. I was just wondering does having had labyrinthitis tell me anything about my current sinus problems? Apologies if this is a stupid question.

Response:

mr_lamouche wrote: > Suffered from labyrinthitis last year for 2 months or so. Have had > chronic sinusitis for 5 months or so of this year. > I was just wondering does having had labyrinthitis tell me anything > about my current sinus problems? Apologies if this is a stupid > question.

A sinus infection can spread and invade the inner ear, causing labyrinthitis. Bacterial infection is a common cause of labyrinthitis. But there are other causes of it too. In fact, when I’ve had sinus infections, when I’ve started getting dizzy I know it’s spreading to my inner ear and it’s time to see a doctor. Invariably the doctor will see my eardrum is bulging out, a sign that infection has reached there. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

I am the same as Steve getting an inner ear infection. I have lost my balance and fell down. I go to the doctor then. shirleyann (new user name)

Response:

Irrigation doesn't work????

admin — Tue, 13 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On 12/13/05 2:27 PM, in article 10742-439F4AD6-…@storefull-3254.bay.webtv.net, "Johnny1…@webtv.net" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > mwgoldi…@cox.net (Lateralus) wrote: >> Jon i have always heard that salt water cleans >> the sinuss out? What is a good product to >> irrigate with that clears mucous? > I think the whole point of the irrigation (particularly pulsatile) is to > assist the natural cleaning process within the sinuses. The salt water > solution for me did the job, but unfortunately did not succeed in > completely eliminating the infection. > ..I think the main concern with irrigating is you don’t want to > introduce any new bug into your system; thus, I would avoid sucking up > sea water. > …Purchase some pickling salt. …I never bother to precisely measure > when I make up my solution, as I go by how it feels. ..If you have too > much salt, it’s just as painful as not having enough. …I generally use > lukewarm water, but if I’m congested, I’ll switch to cold. I also use > flonase, which helps. …Jon

Pickling or kosher salt, next to drug store USP grade salt, is the purest salt you can get. It has no added iodine or drying agents or other chemicals. Sea salt is evaporated sea water and contains all kinds of stuff that might be irritating to the nose. On the other hand lots of people use "ordinary" table salt with iodine and driers without problems. Depends on your sensitivity. But why take a chance on sea salt with unknown products? If you mix 1/4 teaspoon of salt to four ounces of water you get an isotonic solution . You can increase the amount of salt and get a hypertonic solution for example two 1/4 teaspoons of salt to four ounces makes a 2 Normal hypertonic solution . The advantage of Breathe.ease XL by the way is that it contains electrolytes – calcium and potassium chloride just like your natural blood stream. And there are articles to show that it is more effective for the nose than regular saline. And it doesn’t contain preservatives.

Response:

Doc i haven’t really been irrigating regularly, because i haven’t beeen sick in awhile but latest CT shows more mucous production, i think i might make an appointment to see you and do the surgery.

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My doctor advised me to avoid water getting in my ears. So I try to cover my ears as well as I can when i wash my hair. I found this helps me a lot. Some people here suggested irrigating with garlic or horseradish, I haven’t tried it but my guess is it must really hurt.

Response:

Lateralus – I think you need to irrigate more than 3 times a week for it to be effective.Think if we were talking about brushing teeth – brushing three times a week would not be enough to prevent tooth decay! I irrigate twice daily and us the Breathe.ease XL powder which I find much better than Kosher salt or USP salt. Also if you have allergies or underlying structural problems you must treat these for the sinuses to get better not just take the antibiotics. Increased Eosinophils are a measure of allergies in the system.

Response:

On 12/14/05 7:24 AM, in article 40arpeF19u0f…@individual.net, "Susan" wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > Murray Grossan wrote: >> The advantage of Breathe.ease XL by the way is that it contains electrolytes >> – calcium and potassium chloride just like your natural blood stream. And >> there are articles to show that it is more effective for the nose than >> regular saline. And it doesn’t contain preservatives. > Couldn’t one use NuSalt or another substitute in preparing a solution? > Susan

Hi Susan, don’t know anything about Nu Salt. The articles that recocmmend the Locke Ringer’s formula – like Breathe.ease XL are at www.ent-consult.com

Response:

"Murray Grossan" wrote in message

news:BFC6342C.2EC1%hydromed@adelphia.net… > Hi Susan, don’t know anything about Nu Salt. The articles that recocmmend > the Locke Ringer’s formula – like Breathe.ease XL are at

www.ent-consult.com Yes, that is your web site, on which are your articles, recommending your products.

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"Susan" wrote in message

news:40de44F197m90U1@individual.net… > I’ll take a look. But since I always have potassium choloride (NuSalt), > xylitol (for occasional baking), kosher salt (for everything) and baking > soda, I thought I could make a very cost effective version of the > irrigation solution. > Susan

Yes, you can. They are all very cheap ingredients, for the most part salt and baking soda. Apparently a very high markup is charged to call it "Breathe-Ease XL", "doctor-recommended" (by the doctor who sells them, of course), etc. And probably plain salt and baking soda, without the other ingredients, would work just as well. Perhaps just salt works as well, but I think the baking soda helps with the Ph, makes it more gentle.

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wrote in message

news:26816-439F045C-558@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net… > I irrigated religiously for about 3 or 4 years — 3X per day. > .Basically, all it did was help to keep my nose clear; however, I knew > it wasn’t curing the underlying problem. …

No, it certainly does not cure the underlying problem, despite some statements to that effect. It certainly hasn’t with me (after much more than 3 or 4 years), and I don’t think with others on the NG either. It does help to wash out the thick mucous buildup though. I need to irrigate to breathe. I’d be miserable without it. But it certainly has not "cured" me, not a bit.

Response:

"Susan" wrote in message

news:40tdm8F1bck2kU1@individual.net… > I have to object to your characterization of Dr. Grossan’s participation > here. Yes, he sells those products, but he also very frequently shares > the recipes to make cheap alternatives. > Your sniping is uncalled for. > Susan

Not sniping. Just stating the fact, that there is a very high markup on this product made of very cheap ingredients, mostly salt and baking soda.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -MS wrote: > "Susan" wrote in message > news:40tdm8F1bck2kU1@individual.net… >>I have to object to your characterization of Dr. Grossan’s participation >>here. Yes, he sells those products, but he also very frequently shares >>the recipes to make cheap alternatives. >>Your sniping is uncalled for. >>Susan > Not sniping. Just stating the fact, that there is a very high markup on this > product made of very cheap ingredients, mostly salt and baking soda.

Which is perfectly fine, because the markup is for the convenience. Just like the food you get in frozen TV dinners is way cheaper if you bought it and froze it yourself. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

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Yes Steven L. has described it exactly. There a lot of things in life you can do or make cheaper for yourself or you can buy the same thing already prepared without the hassle. Yikes – think of all the people that buy a $3 to $5 cup of coffee a day on the way to work! They could just as easy make the coffee at home for a fraction of the price but they choose to spend the money this way due to time or family constraints. I like the product myself. Also, I do not consider spending between $15 and $30 a month too much considering how much prescription drug or office visit copays are nowadays and how important it is to my continued sinus health.

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Yes I agree this is good if you have ready and easy access to the ingredients. For me the nearest health food store selling the xyitol and USP salt is 45 minutes away. Plus I have to factor in my time going there and the hassle of it. I probably could get the separate ingredients on the internet but then this would take research to determine if the supply was reputable, plus I would have to factor in the shipping costs. So all these things are relevant. In a pinch when I’ve run out of the prepared stuff I have made my own solutions. It is good to know how to make your own solution in any case. As you noted and I agree, Dr. Grossan has readily given out formulas and answered questions here and via personal email. I am greatful that he participates in this group. I have never felt that he is here just to sell his products. So I wanted to offer my support to him in case any new readers to this forum read this.

Response:

I get the Breath.ease XL from AlerG in California. They have a web site. So you can get it over the internet or they have a store you can go to if you live nearby. I’ve found AlerG to be reliable and reputable, plus they carry many hard to get allergy related products. This company has a very good return policy — no questions asked. Also many of the workers at the company suffer from allergies so the products are tried out by the employees before being sold in their catalog. I can buy regular Kosher salt and baking soda at any grocery store so this has not been a problem in times of emergencies. The Whole Foods store that is 45 minutes from me carries the xyitol and a USP salt brand which I prefer over regular Kosher salt. The USP salt brand (I don’t have the brand name with me) is a pharmaceutical grade, finer ground version of non-iodized, no additives salt specifically formulated for nasal irrigation. I think it is about $3.00 for an 8oz bag of this salt. This brand from Whole Foods is much easy to mix in solution than regular kosher salt. Where do you get your supplies??

Response:

Susan, Thank you for replying how you get your supplies. I am sorry I don’t know how to pull in a previous post to quote it in my reply in this newsgroup So usually I find myself writing a book to explain myself… So one question I have for you is how do you know if your credit card is safe with the new internet vendor each time? I guess my problem with this approach is protecting my credit card information. I know I am not liable for any charges. You see from my actual experiences in the software industry with helping companies with their web sites I have found many e-commerce web sites and their respective databases are not very secure. Through various means the information can be stolen by inside employees or outsiders months later than you purchase the product with your credit card. That is why I deal with a small number of vendors I’ve had good luck with in the past.

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Jon i have always heard that salt water cleans the sinuss out? What is a good product to irrigate with that clears mucous?

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mwgoldi…@cox.net (Lateralus) wrote: >Jon i have always heard that salt water cleans > the sinuss out? What is a good product to > irrigate with that clears mucous?

I think the whole point of the irrigation (particularly pulsatile) is to assist the natural cleaning process within the sinuses. The salt water solution for me did the job, but unfortunately did not succeed in completely eliminating the infection. ..I think the main concern with irrigating is you don’t want to introduce any new bug into your system; thus, I would avoid sucking up sea water. …Purchase some pickling salt. …I never bother to precisely measure when I make up my solution, as I go by how it feels. ..If you have too much salt, it’s just as painful as not having enough. …I generally use lukewarm water, but if I’m congested, I’ll switch to cold. I also use flonase, which helps. …Jon

Response:

Okay here is the deal have been battling sinusitis for about a year and a half, enterobacter was one of the bugs but i seem to have kicked it. Had a CT in May of this year with signs of moderate to severe sinusitis. I have been irrigating about 3 times a week, and i surf so water is always flushing my sinuses out. There was a period of about 6 weeks since May that i didn’t irrigate. Went in today for a follow up CT per my ENT, and seems mucosoul build up is worse? what the hell is going on? been using breate ease gel, saline mixture, and enzymes but after today i’m a little frustrated, i have also been exercising more and eating better? I had blood work done a few days ago and my Eosinophils were elevated slightly, scale for blood work was 0-5 and mine came back 10? Sould i be concerned? I feel good i’m not currently ill, but i thought that the mucous would diminish??? Any thoughts? Thank you

Response:

mwgoldi…@cox.net (Lateralus) wrote: >Okay here is the deal have been battling > sinusitis for about a year and a half, > enterobacter was one of the bugs but i seem > to have kicked it. Had a CT in May of this > year with signs of moderate to severe > sinusitis. I have been irrigating about 3 times > a week, and i surf so water is always flushing > my sinuses out. There was a period of about > 6 weeks since May that i didn’t irrigate. Went > in today for a follow up CT per my ENT, and > seems mucosoul build up is worse? what the > hell is going on?

Well firstly…I don’t think ocean water filled with sand and other by-products (sea weed, fish crap etc) is the best thing for your sinuses, but here’s my story… I irrigated religiously for about 3 or 4 years — 3X per day. .Basically, all it did was help to keep my nose clear; however, I knew it wasn’t curing the underlying problem. …I still experienced periodic flare-ups where antibiotics were required, and if I put pressure on one of my eyes, I felt pain in behind it.. ….I hate to say this, but it wasn’t until I added a _good_ shot of hydrogen peroxide to my saline mixture that things started to improve. ….I (by accident) over did the recommended amount. …I hung my head over the tub writhing in pain… However, out came mucus and blood (In fact, the pain was so severe, I felt like I was going to purge my brain too). …Since that time (3 years ago), the pain behind my eye has completely dissappeared. …. I have cut back on my irrigation (considerably), although I believe my condition may be now starting to return, as lately I have experienced some ongoing congestion.. (I should add… I haven’t had the need to take any antibiotics for over 3 years now) …I firmly believe it was that first hydrogen peroxide application that proved the most effective towards ridding me of the affliction — out of everything that I have tried. ….Although I must add, subsequent applications did little more than irritate my sinus tissue. I wouldn’t recommend the regimen for everyone, but I know for me, it did accomplish more than just merely rinsing out the outer mucus. …Good luck with your condition. …Jon

Response:

pathway from sinus to eye

admin — Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Thanks so much for the reply. I will follow up with my current Dr. All i am doing is irrigation. it is probably more pronounced when i fill my sinuses and hold my nose and bend over–i seem to be able to clear more stuff out this way, i was assuming i was cleansing my ethmoid — kinda like the upside-down irrigating method that has been mentioned. I don’t know if i would ever be able to get this mucous out without irrigating. Perhaps the latest CT scan that i had done will show some abnormality with the the valve.

Response:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:35:57 -0500, "loxaluck" wrote: >Thanks — >i am fairly certain that the irrigation is not just blocking the tear duct >and causing my eyes to tear but rather the irrigation fluid is draining >through my eye.

It would probably be a referred sensation (in one place but feels as if it is another). Those are quite common……. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i can feel the sting of the hydrogen pyroxide or alkalol; >only the left eye through my right nostil.

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On 12/7/05 9:11 AM, in article 7665afd28c16c411e2d20372b891c…@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com, "loxaluck" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > I remember a previous posting regarding a pathway from sinus to eye. i > believe someone said there was no such and another said there was but that > it would take an aggressive means to push it through. > when i irrigate gently with a neti pot, i definitely do hook up with my > left eye only when going through my right nostril. I espially notice this > when using hydrogen pyroxide or alkalol. I am certain that it is not > dripping around the contour of my face. > is this a cause for concern? or might it be yet another symptom of > previous too-aggressive surgery? > thanks

It is very dangerous to have nasal material come out of the system that drains the eye called the naso – lacrimal duct. Whatever you are doing that causes it – stop at once. The nose is filled with bacteria , the bad kind, and you definitely don’t want that going into your eye system. The naso-lacrimal duct system is not equipped to handle the bugs that the nose has. You are born with a one way valve that drains the eye and prevents pus from the nose going into the eye. For whatever reason it sounds like your valve is not working. Again, getting material for whatever reason into your eye from the nose can result in serious disease.

Response:

loxaluck wrote: > I remember a previous posting regarding a pathway from sinus to eye. i > believe someone said there was no such and another said there was but that > it would take an aggressive means to push it through.

Of course there is–in the reverse direction. The tear ducts drain down into the nose. So if your nasal irrigation fluid temporarily blocks the tear duct opening and keeps it from draining, your eyes can start watering because there’s no place for the eye fluid to go. The manufacturer of Sinus Rinse has listed "watery eyes" as a possible side effect of irrigation with their squeeze syringe. > is this a cause for concern? or might it be yet another symptom of > previous too-aggressive surgery?

A badly and chronically blocked tear duct often indicates infection. I wouldn’t worry about it unless the tear duct becomes blocked even when you’re not irrigating. In that case you need to see a physician. In the meantime, you might try rubbing or massaging the area near the inner corner of your eye, or applying warm compresses to the area, to see if you can open up that tear duct. WASH YOUR HANDS FIRST! — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Thanks — i am fairly certain that the irrigation is not just blocking the tear duct and causing my eyes to tear but rather the irrigation fluid is draining through my eye. i can feel the sting of the hydrogen pyroxide or alkalol; only the left eye through my right nostil.

Response:

I remember a previous posting regarding a pathway from sinus to eye. i believe someone said there was no such and another said there was but that it would take an aggressive means to push it through. when i irrigate gently with a neti pot, i definitely do hook up with my left eye only when going through my right nostril. I espially notice this when using hydrogen pyroxide or alkalol. I am certain that it is not dripping around the contour of my face. is this a cause for concern? or might it be yet another symptom of previous too-aggressive surgery? thanks

Response:

irrigation making me feel like I have a bad cold

admin — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

On 12/6/05 12:31 PM, in article 1133901075.692459.223…@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"dougred…@gmail.com" wrote: > Susan wrote: >> I have another question or two. What temperature is the water, what is >> your technique; pressure, head/body position? How often do you clean >> out your irrigator with peroxide? Do you let the first solution to come >> out run into the sink before inserting the tip so you don’t irrigate >> with water that’s been sitting inside the tubing? >> Susan > I am using warm water. Now that I have some distilled water I am > taking filtered water, microwaving it to a boil, mixing in the Breathe > Ease and then adding room temperature distilled to make for a basin of > warm water. > Pressure on the Hydropulse is set to medium, I believe the directions > are for it to come out 1" straight up? > I always run a bit of water out to ensure the water is coming out 1" > straight up so it’s not old water going into my sinuses. > As for peroxide, once per week? I’ve only been doing it for a few days > so far this time and hence only cleaned it out once. If I recall from > the manual it needs to be cleaned with a mild bleach solution > periodically as well. > Doug

With the hydro pulse the stream coming out should be almost one inch high. You can use either 200 cc of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide or bleach, but peroxide seems easier to use and rinse out. Leave the peroxide in fo r3-4 hours, run the nasal tip into the solution and recycle it for a minute.

Response:

On 12/6/05 3:24 PM, in article 3vmkt0F170ka…@individual.net, "Susan" wrote: > I’m waging a losing battle right now with an intransigent infection, and > waiting for my mail order rx for Bactroban ointment to arrive so I can > irrigate with it.

I am not convinced that irrigating with Bactroban is as beneficial as simply inserting it directly into the nose. Stays there longer, more contact with bacteria, usually spreads about.

Response:

Susan wrote: > First of all, congrats! :-)

Thank you, but although I’m hopeful I’m not holding my breath. If I go 3 days with better airflow then I will celebrate. > My chronic ethmoid sinusitis hasn’t shown up on an X ray or CT scan > ever. I’ve read that as many as 25% of ethmoid sinusitis isn’t detected > by these images.

That’s good to know. I wish my ENT had told me that 3 years ago. > I’m waging a losing battle right now with an intransigent infection, and > waiting for my mail order rx for Bactroban ointment to arrive so I can > irrigate with it. > Keep us up to date on your progress with the cephalexin irrigation?

I will certainly post updates but cephalexin isn’t anywhere near the best choice; I am only using cephalexin because it’s what I have on hand. (It is used to treat acute sinusitis sometimes, but is WAY down the list.) Cleveland Clinic website states that "The antibiotic of choice in acute sinusitis must cover S pneumoniae, H influenzae, and M catarrhalis." For chronic sinusitis they go on to say that the antibiotic must also be able to knock out Staphylococcus species and anaerobes. Cephalexin doesn’t even come close to making the overall cut. Cleveland Clinic lists those antibiotics as amoxicillin-clavulanate, cefpodoxime proxetil, cefuroxime, gatifloxacin, moxifloxacin, and levofloxacin. http://www.clevelandclinicmeded.com/diseasemanagement/allergy/sinusit… I’ll post updates on this and if this doesn’t do the job, I will try to get one of the antibiotics indicated for chronic sinusitis and try irrigating with that. Obviously they are talking about taking them orally but I would rather not take antibiotics systemically unless absolutely necessary. Doug

Response:

dougred…@gmail.com wrote: > I am fairly certain I do NOT have a cold but rather "feels like I have > a cold" is the best way I can describe what I’m feeling from > irrigation. I have irrigated in the past with the same problem, both > doing isotonic and hypertonic. > I decided to give it a go again, this time with Breathe Ease XL where > before I was just using plain salt and baking soda. I am using a > Hydropulse twice per day, hypertonic. Within 24 hours I felt like I > had a nasty cold, and it’s been that way for days now.

What exactly do you mean by "felt like I had a nasty cold"? What are the symptoms you are experiencing? — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

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in article 3vob9nF14tqt…@individual.net, Susan at neverm…@nomail.com wrote on 12/7/05 9:52 AM: > I agree. I’ve found that it takes 10 days for oral meds to make much > diff, and even if I take Augmentin XR for 30 days, the day I discontinue > it, the heavy drainage and infection sx return.

So then what do you do?!! I’m getting very frustrated because of a recurring infection causing severe sore throat symptoms, along with the drainage, etc. I’m currently starting on the Augmentin for 10 days and was hoping this would kick it out… :(

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in article 3vop17F17665…@individual.net, Susan at neverm…@nomail.com wrote on 12/7/05 1:47 PM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> x-no-archive: yes > Jack wrote: >> So then what do you do?!! I’m getting very frustrated because of a >> recurring infection causing severe sore throat symptoms, along with the >> drainage, etc. I’m currently starting on the Augmentin for 10 days and was >> hoping this would kick it out… :( > 10 days?!? All that could do is piss off the germs! > Mayo clinic recommends a minimum of 4 weeks, and up to 12 weeks of > antibiotics. I’ve concluded that it doesn’t matter how many weeks I > take, the infection will recur, so I’ve been settling for managing, but > not curing my infection for now, with irrigation, nasal sprays, > decongestants, drinking water, antihistamines, allergy shots…

Do you have a link or something that points to the Mayo clinic recommendations? I don’t guess my doctor is familiar with that… Thanks!

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in article 3vpa68F16l2j…@individual.net, Susan at neverm…@nomail.com wrote on 12/7/05 6:39 PM: > I didn’t have it, but I googled it up. You’ve heard of google? ;-) > http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chronic-sinusitis/DS00232/DSECTION=6&

Thanks, Susan – I appreciate it! Yep, I know about google(!) – just thought you might have had the info handy since you referred to it! :) – Jacki

Response:

Steven L. wrote: > What exactly do you mean by "felt like I had a nasty cold"? What are > the symptoms you are experiencing?

In actuality it had nothing to do with irrigation. I actually did get sick and it had nothing to do with irrigation. Just a coincidence.

Response:

Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > I think the best thing to do is irrigate with the drugs rather than take > them orally; so little actually makes it to the sinuses with their > meager blood flow.

Susan, since your infection comes back immediatly upon cessation of antibiotics, I wonder if you could irrigate with them daily with no ill effect? I have no idea how much of the antibiotic makes it’s way into the bloodstream by irrigating vs. taking a capsule, but it’s little to none it would seem a logical thing to try in your case.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > dougred…@gmail.com wrote: >> Susan, since your infection comes back immediatly upon cessation of >> antibiotics, I wonder if you could irrigate with them daily with no ill >> effect? > I plan to do so with Bactroban once I receive the drug in the mail. Not > indefinitely, though. >> I have no idea how much of the antibiotic makes it’s way into >> the bloodstream by irrigating vs. taking a capsule, but it’s little to >> none it would seem a logical thing to try in your case. > OTOH, mucosal tissue very efficiently moves drugs into the bloodstream, > OTOH, most of the irrigation solution runs into the sink, so I don’t > think much of dose goes into the bloodstream.

The Cleveland Clinic used to prescribe gentamicin irrigation for some of their sinus patients. But recently they’ve abandoned it after some of their patients developed definite systemic side effects. Gentamicin can have dangerous neurological side effects. Apparently enough gentamicin solution was being absorbed thru the nose, or was being swallowed as post nasal drip after irrigation. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

On 12/10/05 4:29 PM, in article 1134260966.016802.146…@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com, "dougred…@gmail.com" wrote: > Susan wrote: >> x-no-archive: yes >> I think the best thing to do is irrigate with the drugs rather than take >> them orally; so little actually makes it to the sinuses with their >> meager blood flow. > Susan, since your infection comes back immediatly upon cessation of > antibiotics, I wonder if you could irrigate with them daily with no ill > effect? I have no idea how much of the antibiotic makes it’s way into > the bloodstream by irrigating vs. taking a capsule, but it’s little to > none it would seem a logical thing to try in your case.

Susan’s situatiom may be different, but what we see is He took the antibiotic as prescribed and felt better. The antibiotic did kill the bad bacteria. But his cilia failed to return to normal function. With the cilia not moving the mucus out of the nose and sinus, a new infection now developed and he became ill again. We used to say the infection returned because he didn’t take the antibiotic long enough, but now we pay attention to the cilia function. Remember, hot tea, chicken soup and pulsatile irrigation .

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > Steven L. wrote: >> The Cleveland Clinic used to prescribe gentamicin irrigation for some >> of their sinus patients. But recently they’ve abandoned it after some >> of their patients developed definite systemic side effects. >> Gentamicin can have dangerous neurological side effects. Apparently >> enough gentamicin solution was being absorbed thru the nose, or was >> being swallowed as post nasal drip after irrigation. > Or gentamicin is toxic even in minute amounts?

The problem with gentamicin is that its neurotoxicity is irreversible when it occurs. So even though only a few, highly sensitive patients reacted to it while most didn’t, that was enough for the Cleveland Clinic to ban its use. They still don’t know why a few patients are so much more sensitive to it than others. But then, we don’t really know why some patients develop allergic reactions to medications while others don’t either. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > Murray Grossan wrote: >> Susan’s situatiom may be different, but what we see is >> He took the antibiotic as prescribed and felt better. The antibiotic did >> kill the bad bacteria. >> But his cilia failed to return to normal function. With the cilia not >> moving >> the mucus out of the nose and sinus, a new infection now developed and he >> became ill again. We used to say the infection returned because he >> didn’t take the antibiotic >> long enough, but now we pay attention to the cilia function. Remember, >> hot >> tea, chicken soup and pulsatile irrigation . > My situation is different, in that I also irrigate, drink lots of > fluids, irrigate some more, take decongestants, use Rhinocort, take > bi-weekly allergy shots, etc… > Maybe my cilia are lazy, maybe my right ethmoid is blocked, maybe > infection is in the bone, I dunno…

Twice now, I have had pockets of infection that didn’t show up on the CT scans and required surgeries to correct each time. Each time I had to find an ENT who would be willing to operate on me based on my symptoms and history only, even though the CT scan was negative. We really need something better than today’s CT scans; maybe a CT scan with vastly improved resolution. Today’s CT scans just don’t have the resolution to detect small pockets of infection that are nevertheless sufficient to make us sick. And they aren’t good at detecting pockets of infection in the bone. Does anyone know if a bone scan would work? — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

Doc if the irrigation stream doesn’t make it up into the sinuses, then how can you clear out mucous in your maxillarys and ethmoids?

Response:

On 12/12/05 9:41 PM, in article 1134452471.336891.300…@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Lateralus" wrote: > Doc if the irrigation stream doesn’t make it up into the sinuses, then > how can you clear out mucous in your maxillarys and ethmoids?

The stream does enter the sinuses, but it is not as a hose stuck in the sinus cavity. It is called Bernoulli principle and with the Hydro Pulse you have the addition of the pumping action.

Response:

If you felt good before the irrigation, and the irrigation made you feel worse, why irrigate? As they say, "if it ain’t broke, don’t ….. I understand what you’re saying though. After irrigating, having loosened up the phlegm and expanded it with liquid, you can feel more congested than before irrigating. I find it necessary to shake my head in all different directions (over the bathtub, which I clean afterwards) after irrigating. It doesn’t only get out extra fluid, but a lot of phlegm as well. Also, I often have to cough up a lot of phlegm after irrigating, as it drips into the throat. wrote in message

news:1133890760.900773.199380@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am fairly certain I do NOT have a cold but rather "feels like I have > a cold" is the best way I can describe what I’m feeling from > irrigation. I have irrigated in the past with the same problem, both > doing isotonic and hypertonic. > I decided to give it a go again, this time with Breathe Ease XL where > before I was just using plain salt and baking soda. I am using a > Hydropulse twice per day, hypertonic. Within 24 hours I felt like I > had a nasty cold, and it’s been that way for days now. > Susan in another threat suggested it may be due to using non-sterile > water so I bought some distilled water and have irrigated with that > twice so far. Today I feel about as bad as I have since I started. > Last time I irrigated, when I stopped, this went away. Has anyone else > experienced this? I’m wondering if I stick with it long enough, this > will go away?

Response:

Is your nasal passage way blocked? It is not advisable to irrigate if your nasal passageway is blocked. This will make you feel worse.

Response:

Also, personally for me- using a hypertonic solution usually dries me out too much and causes a rebound effect.

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Susan wrote: > I have another question or two. What temperature is the water, what is > your technique; pressure, head/body position? How often do you clean > out your irrigator with peroxide? Do you let the first solution to come > out run into the sink before inserting the tip so you don’t irrigate > with water that’s been sitting inside the tubing? > Susan

I am using warm water. Now that I have some distilled water I am taking filtered water, microwaving it to a boil, mixing in the Breathe Ease and then adding room temperature distilled to make for a basin of warm water. Pressure on the Hydropulse is set to medium, I believe the directions are for it to come out 1" straight up? I always run a bit of water out to ensure the water is coming out 1" straight up so it’s not old water going into my sinuses. As for peroxide, once per week? I’ve only been doing it for a few days so far this time and hence only cleaned it out once. If I recall from the manual it needs to be cleaned with a mild bleach solution periodically as well. Doug

Response:

Lynn wrote: > Is your nasal passage way blocked? It is not advisable to irrigate if > your nasal passageway is blocked. This will make you feel worse.

Not nearly blocked enough so that I shouldn’t irrigate, but certainly blocked enough that I can’t breathe through my nose nearly as well as I should be able to.

Response:

Susan wrote: > What’s your body and head position while you irrigate? Are you congested > when you begin, have you blown your nose first, frex? > Susan

I always bend over, with my face over the sink. I am never congested when I begin. I don’t seem to produce a much mucus; in my case swelling and inflammation are likely the problem rather than mucus.

Response:

Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > dougred…@gmail.com wrote: > > I always bend over, with my face over the sink. I am never congested > > when I begin. I don’t seem to produce a much mucus; in my case > > swelling and inflammation are likely the problem rather than mucus. > In that case, I wonder if chilled water might be more helpful, if you > can tolerate it? I use it as warm as I can tolerate because it seems to > assist more with stimulating drainage, etc. But heat ratchets up > inflammation, and maybe in your case, cool water might be more helpful. > Susan

Actually Susan, I may have found the solution. Having become so fed up with not being able to breathe through my nose that I’ve been trying various pharmaceutical spray combinations to no avail and knowing that I’ve tried everything I can think of and combinations of everything I can think of to no avail in the past, I decided to do the one thing I have had in the back of my mind but had been saving as an "all else fails" type of "trial" on myself. I have some Cephalexin in my medicine cabinet which I never needed to use. But I saved it to try in the irrigator. This is not the ideal systemic antibiotic for treating sinusitis I know from reading, but it is sometimes used. I emptied one capsule in with my Breathe Ease powder, filled up the basin, shook it up and irrigated with it. That was 3 hours ago. My nose right now is more clear than it has ever been, even more clear than when I tried Afrin + Claritin + Singulair. I hope that this simply means I’ve been walking around my whole life with chronic sinusitis. But if that is the case why on EARTH would my ENT not have seen it on the CT scan or when he did my turbinectomy / septoplasty? Or the various allergists who have looked up my nose? Of course if it is not bacteria then there is the huge question of why does it appear that Cephalexin has cleared my sinuses after only 3 hours? I’m going to run this twice a day until the Cephalexin is gone unless there is some really HUGE risk I may have missed somewhere.

Response:

I am fairly certain I do NOT have a cold but rather "feels like I have a cold" is the best way I can describe what I’m feeling from irrigation. I have irrigated in the past with the same problem, both doing isotonic and hypertonic. I decided to give it a go again, this time with Breathe Ease XL where before I was just using plain salt and baking soda. I am using a Hydropulse twice per day, hypertonic. Within 24 hours I felt like I had a nasty cold, and it’s been that way for days now. Susan in another threat suggested it may be due to using non-sterile water so I bought some distilled water and have irrigated with that twice so far. Today I feel about as bad as I have since I started. Last time I irrigated, when I stopped, this went away. Has anyone else experienced this? I’m wondering if I stick with it long enough, this will go away?

Response:

Recurring Severe Sore Throat and Earache

admin — Tue, 06 Dec 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi, Everyone… I have been having recurring sore throat and earache for the past couple of months that is very severe. I have never had this type before. Usually, I will get a cold/sore throat, then after a couple of days, the sore throat will be gone. This time that’s what’s lingering. I was on Zithromax first, which did clear it completely. 4 days after being off it, the sore throat started returning, within a few days, it was severe again and the "ice-pick" earache came back too. Went on Ketek after that, which also stopped it. 4 days after being off that, back it started coming again. Yesterday, hour by hour, it increased in intensity so rapidly that I had to call my doctor yet again and we’re trying Augmentin 875 mg. this time for 10 days. I do have sinus symptoms associated with this as well – congestion, excess mucus, pressure, etc. The first time I had the green mucus, since then it’s stayed clear/white. Very thick. I’ve also been taking Duratuss (Guaifenisin and Pseudoephedrine) though I can’t take the pseudo- at night due to restless legs and agitation. Have been trying to drink lots of water, but when the pain gets so bad I can hardly swallow this is hard. Actually, the pain gets so severe I can hardly talk – moving my mouth open and shut HURTS! I go back tomorrow for her to recheck and see if we can figure out why this keeps recurring. I read on here something about being on antibiotics for 3 weeks? Should I ask her about this? Is Augmentin a good one to use or is there something better? I also have a Grossan irrigator adapter but my Waterpik seems to not be working – won’t pump hardly at all – so I’ve been using saling spray for now. My doctor is recommending xylitol spray or mints – have any of you tried that and does it help? Is there a brand that’s better than others? Where do I get this?! Any other suggestions would sure be appreciated. This has already gotten OLD, and I sure don’t want to go through Christmas season like this! Thanks so much, Jacki

Response:

Xylitol might be a good idea for you to try. I like the mints (and the fruit ones) from Zellies.com.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jack wrote: > Hi, Everyone… > I have been having recurring sore throat and earache for the past couple of > months that is very severe. I have never had this type before. Usually, I > will get a cold/sore throat, then after a couple of days, the sore throat > will be gone. This time that’s what’s lingering. I was on Zithromax first, > which did clear it completely. 4 days after being off it, the sore throat > started returning, within a few days, it was severe again and the "ice-pick" > earache came back too. Went on Ketek after that, which also stopped it. 4 > days after being off that, back it started coming again. Yesterday, hour by > hour, it increased in intensity so rapidly that I had to call my doctor yet > again and we’re trying Augmentin 875 mg. this time for 10 days. I do have > sinus symptoms associated with this as well – congestion, excess mucus, > pressure, etc. The first time I had the green mucus, since then it’s stayed > clear/white. Very thick. I’ve also been taking Duratuss (Guaifenisin and > Pseudoephedrine) though I can’t take the pseudo- at night due to restless > legs and agitation. Have been trying to drink lots of water, but when the > pain gets so bad I can hardly swallow this is hard. Actually, the pain gets > so severe I can hardly talk – moving my mouth open and shut HURTS! > I go back tomorrow for her to recheck and see if we can figure out why this > keeps recurring. I read on here something about being on antibiotics for 3 > weeks? Should I ask her about this?

Undertreatment of a sinus infection is one of the main reasons why it not only recurs, but can become chronic. That’s how I got stuck with chronic sinusitis. Besides that, when the infection recurs after an insufficient dose of antibiotic, the surviving bugs are more resistant to that antibiotic than before. That’s happened to me too. The next time you try Ketek, Zithromax or Augmentin, you may find they won’t work at all because your bugs have become resistant to them. Sinus infections are stubborn. It can take up to 3 weeks worth of an antibiotic to clear it, because oral antibiotics depend on the bloodstream to carry them to the site of the infection, and the blood supply to the sinuses is relatively poor. In particular, Zithromax is a real crock because the typical Z-Pak only has 5 days’ worth. The manufacturer claims that because of its longer half life that’s all you need, which is nonsense where sinus infections are concerned. So far, the antibiotics you’ve tried aren’t the "big guns" where sinusitis is concerned. Ask your physician for 3 weeks’ worth of Levaquin or Avelox. If even that fails, then it’s time to see an ENT. Recurring sinus infections can be due to a physical blockage in the sinuses, which antibiotics won’t fix. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

On 12/7/05 7:43 AM, in article ZqDlf.317$QQ1…@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Steven L." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > Jack wrote: >> Hi, Everyone… >> I have been having recurring sore throat and earache for the past couple of >> months that is very severe. I have never had this type before. Usually, I >> will get a cold/sore throat, then after a couple of days, the sore throat >> will be gone. This time that’s what’s lingering. I was on Zithromax first, >> which did clear it completely. 4 days after being off it, the sore throat >> started returning, within a few days, it was severe again and the "ice-pick" >> earache came back too. Went on Ketek after that, which also stopped it. 4 >> days after being off that, back it started coming again. Yesterday, hour by >> hour, it increased in intensity so rapidly that I had to call my doctor yet >> again and we’re trying Augmentin 875 mg. this time for 10 days. I do have >> sinus symptoms associated with this as well – congestion, excess mucus, >> pressure, etc. The first time I had the green mucus, since then it’s stayed >> clear/white. Very thick. I’ve also been taking Duratuss (Guaifenisin and >> Pseudoephedrine) though I can’t take the pseudo- at night due to restless >> legs and agitation. Have been trying to drink lots of water, but when the >> pain gets so bad I can hardly swallow this is hard. Actually, the pain gets >> so severe I can hardly talk – moving my mouth open and shut HURTS! >> I go back tomorrow for her to recheck and see if we can figure out why this >> keeps recurring. I read on here something about being on antibiotics for 3 >> weeks? Should I ask her about this? > Undertreatment of a sinus infection is one of the main reasons why it > not only recurs, but can become chronic. That’s how I got stuck with > chronic sinusitis. Besides that, when the infection recurs after an > insufficient dose of antibiotic, the surviving bugs are more resistant > to that antibiotic than before. That’s happened to me too. The next > time you try Ketek, Zithromax or Augmentin, you may find they won’t work > at all because your bugs have become resistant to them. > Sinus infections are stubborn. It can take up to 3 weeks worth of an > antibiotic to clear it, because oral antibiotics depend on the > bloodstream to carry them to the site of the infection, and the blood > supply to the sinuses is relatively poor. In particular, Zithromax is a > real crock because the typical Z-Pak only has 5 days’ worth. The > manufacturer claims that because of its longer half life that’s all you > need, which is nonsense where sinus infections are concerned. > So far, the antibiotics you’ve tried aren’t the "big guns" where > sinusitis is concerned. Ask your physician for 3 weeks’ worth of > Levaquin or Avelox. > If even that fails, then it’s time to see an ENT. Recurring sinus > infections can be due to a physical blockage in the sinuses, which > antibiotics won’t fix.

Actually its not YOU taking an inadequate supply that makes the bugs resistant, its you neighbors that take a pill or two whenever they feel an infection or a cold. Resistant bugs are found in Areas, not in single persons i.e. Resistant staph is southern detroit.

Response:

in article ZqDlf.317$QQ1…@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 10:43 AM: > So far, the antibiotics you’ve tried aren’t the "big guns" where > sinusitis is concerned. Ask your physician for 3 weeks’ worth of > Levaquin or Avelox. > If even that fails, then it’s time to see an ENT. Recurring sinus > infections can be due to a physical blockage in the sinuses, which > antibiotics won’t fix.

Thanks so very much for the response… So since I just started on Augmentin 2 days ago, should I go ahead and finish this out to see what happens – she gave me 10 days worth…? How long does it usually take with Augmentin to know if it’s going to work? My sore throat is definitely improving (it hasn’t even been 48 hours yet) but it’s still pretty painful. It also feels like it’s raw and painful at the very back right side of my tongue… I will definitely keep your note about the "big guns" and I’m sure she would agree to let me try those, especially if this Augmentin doesn’t cut it. I guess my main question at this point is should I finish out the Augmentin or drop that and switch to one of the others? I did take Levaquin years ago and don’t remember what it did or didn’t do for me, but it was at least 5 years ago. I did get some xylitol spray today from the health food store (Xlear brand) – how often do you use this stuff?! I’m also wondering if I should add the nasal steroid (Rhinocort AQ seems to be best according to the FAQ) – or wait and see if the Xlear will do the trick? Thanks again… Jacki

Response:

in article 1133910948.229528.157…@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Griffin33 at b…@rochester.rr.com wrote on 12/6/05 6:15 PM: > Xylitol might be a good idea for you to try. I like the mints (and the > fruit ones) from Zellies.com.

Thanks a bunch – I did find some Xlear spray today locally so I got that to get started on it. Will have to mail order the mints, though, so I appreciate the info! Jacki

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > Murray Grossan wrote: >> Actually its not YOU taking an inadequate supply that makes the bugs >> resistant, its you neighbors that take a pill or two whenever they >> feel an >> infection or a cold. Resistant bugs are found in Areas, not in single >> persons i.e. Resistant staph is southern detroit. > Actually, it’s much more a matter of the livestock and produce > manufactured by agribusiness are dumping 80% of all antibiotics > manufactured in the U.S. into livestock and onto produce. I think if we > disallow such practices, we’ll have taken the most important precaution. > There’s no excuse for spraying produce with streptomycin, or raising > cattle in such an unhealthy manner that they constantly need abx.

Livestock aren’t "raised in an unhealthy manner." But all livestock are prone to infectious diseases, just like your pet poodle is or you are. And every time livestock gets sick, that reduces the yield of meat, eggs and milk and raises prices. The price differential between so-called "organically grown" produce or free-range chickens vs. the standard foodstuffs is exactly how much the antibiotics are saving agribusiness. And I’ve seen "organically grown" produce that is infested with bugs, worms and rot, all of which are prevented by agribusiness practices. I’m certainly not prepared to deliberately pay more $$$ for food just to prevent this practice. I can’t afford it. Having said that, it’s worthwhile for agribusiness to not use the same broad-spectrum antibiotics on their food products that we humans do. I’m not that worried about streptomycin, because we don’t use that much anymore except for bubonic plague and that hasn’t been a problem in a very long time. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jack wrote: > in article ZqDlf.317$QQ1…@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at > sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 10:43 AM: >>So far, the antibiotics you’ve tried aren’t the "big guns" where >>sinusitis is concerned. Ask your physician for 3 weeks’ worth of >>Levaquin or Avelox. >>If even that fails, then it’s time to see an ENT. Recurring sinus >>infections can be due to a physical blockage in the sinuses, which >>antibiotics won’t fix. > Thanks so very much for the response… So since I just started on > Augmentin 2 days ago, should I go ahead and finish this out to see what > happens – she gave me 10 days worth…? How long does it usually take with > Augmentin to know if it’s going to work? My sore throat is definitely > improving (it hasn’t even been 48 hours yet) but it’s still pretty painful. > It also feels like it’s raw and painful at the very back right side of my > tongue…

Generally if the antibiotic is working, the symptoms should start to improve within 4-5 days. But like I said, it’s probable that the infection won’t be completely eradicated with the 10 day course. 10 days is just not enough for many stubborn sinus infections. > I will definitely keep your note about the "big guns" and I’m sure she would > agree to let me try those, especially if this Augmentin doesn’t cut it. I > guess my main question at this point is should I finish out the Augmentin or > drop that and switch to one of the others?

I think it’s more important to eradicate the infection thoroughly, which means you need to find a doctor who’s willing to give you more than 10 days worth of whatever antibiotic s/he prescribes. It seems like this is the third short course you’ve had. I sure don’t want your doctor to give you just 10 days worth of the "big guns" and ruin those for you too. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

in article gfMlf.516$QQ1….@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 8:45 PM: > I think it’s more important to eradicate the infection thoroughly, which > means you need to find a doctor who’s willing to give you more than 10 > days worth of whatever antibiotic s/he prescribes. It seems like this > is the third short course you’ve had. I sure don’t want your doctor to > give you just 10 days worth of the "big guns" and ruin those for you too.

She will probably go along with whatever I ask for – so I’ve shared the Mayo clinic article that says 4 weeks minimum! I’m just wondering now if I should go ahead and SWITCH to one of those other antibiotics for 3-4 weeks immediately or stay on the Augmentin for 3-4 weeks instead of just 10 days… Thanks again! Jacki

Response:

On 12/7/05 8:01 PM, in article BFBD1A46.15FE0%gbarineauii100…@comcast.net, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Jack" wrote: > in article gfMlf.516$QQ1….@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at > sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 8:45 PM: >> I think it’s more important to eradicate the infection thoroughly, which >> means you need to find a doctor who’s willing to give you more than 10 >> days worth of whatever antibiotic s/he prescribes. It seems like this >> is the third short course you’ve had. I sure don’t want your doctor to >> give you just 10 days worth of the "big guns" and ruin those for you too. > She will probably go along with whatever I ask for – so I’ve shared the Mayo > clinic article that says 4 weeks minimum! I’m just wondering now if I > should go ahead and SWITCH to one of those other antibiotics for 3-4 weeks > immediately or stay on the Augmentin for 3-4 weeks instead of just 10 > days… > Thanks again! > Jacki

The Mayo article DOES NOT SAY FOUR WEEKS MINIMUM. THE PDR and the FDA does say that Augmentin is indicated for Sinus Infection. What the Mayo web site is is a general discussion. All patients vary and it says MAY require four weeks of Rx. Everyone is different and each patient needs to be treated individually. It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more antibiotic than is necessary. Did you know that antibiotics have side effects? If you read the info here you would know that other factors help healing so that less antibiotic may be needed.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Murray Grossan wrote: > On 12/7/05 8:01 PM, in article BFBD1A46.15FE0%gbarineauii100…@comcast.net, > "Jack" wrote: >>in article gfMlf.516$QQ1….@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at >>sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 8:45 PM: >>>I think it’s more important to eradicate the infection thoroughly, which >>>means you need to find a doctor who’s willing to give you more than 10 >>>days worth of whatever antibiotic s/he prescribes. It seems like this >>>is the third short course you’ve had. I sure don’t want your doctor to >>>give you just 10 days worth of the "big guns" and ruin those for you too. >>She will probably go along with whatever I ask for – so I’ve shared the Mayo >>clinic article that says 4 weeks minimum! I’m just wondering now if I >>should go ahead and SWITCH to one of those other antibiotics for 3-4 weeks >>immediately or stay on the Augmentin for 3-4 weeks instead of just 10 >>days… >>Thanks again! >>Jacki > The Mayo article DOES NOT SAY FOUR WEEKS MINIMUM. > THE PDR and the FDA does say that Augmentin is indicated for Sinus > Infection. > What the Mayo web site is is a general discussion. All patients vary and it > says MAY require four weeks of Rx. > Everyone is different and each patient needs to be treated individually. > It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more antibiotic > than is necessary.

The problem is that with sinusitis, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE for a primary-care physician, a family doctor, to know what is "necessary." They just don’t have the needed diagnostic tools–CT scans, endoscopes, sinus cultures–that ENTs have. Thus they are unable to determine just what antibiotic to take and how long to take it, till all sinus disease is eliminated. For primary-care physicians it is guesswork, and with sinusitis it’s better to err on the side of wiping out the infection thoroughly rather than undertreating it and allowing it to flare right up again. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jack wrote: > in article gfMlf.516$QQ1….@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at > sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 8:45 PM: >>I think it’s more important to eradicate the infection thoroughly, which >>means you need to find a doctor who’s willing to give you more than 10 >>days worth of whatever antibiotic s/he prescribes. It seems like this >>is the third short course you’ve had. I sure don’t want your doctor to >>give you just 10 days worth of the "big guns" and ruin those for you too. > She will probably go along with whatever I ask for – so I’ve shared the Mayo > clinic article that says 4 weeks minimum! I’m just wondering now if I > should go ahead and SWITCH to one of those other antibiotics for 3-4 weeks > immediately or stay on the Augmentin for 3-4 weeks instead of just 10 > days…

If you can get her to give you a refill of Augmentin so that you take it continuously for 4 weeks (no intervening gaps), it might be worth a try because Augmentin is a good first-line antibiotic for sinusitis. My ENT would use it on me if I weren’t allergic to it. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

in article K7Zlf.757$n1….@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/8/05 11:25 AM: > If you can get her to give you a refill of Augmentin so that you take it > continuously for 4 weeks (no intervening gaps), it might be worth a try > because Augmentin is a good first-line antibiotic for sinusitis. My ENT > would use it on me if I weren’t allergic to it.

That’s actually what she has said she’d prefer to do at this point, so I will go with that to make sure it doesn’t just come right back. What allergic symptoms do you experience with Augmentin? Just curious. So far it’s mainly just causing me some diarrhea (not bad, just aggravating) – and yes, I’m taking probiotics in between doses – maybe not enough, though… Thanks again, Jacki

Response:

in article BFBD0296.2D98%hydro…@adelphia.net, Murray Grossan at hydro…@adelphia.net wrote on 12/8/05 12:20 AM: > It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more antibiotic > than is necessary. Did you know that antibiotics have side effects? > If you read the info here you would know that other factors help healing so > that less antibiotic may be needed.

Thanks, Dr. Grossan… I definitely know the antibiotics have side effects and wouldn’t even be using them if it hadn’t gotten excruciatingly painful (throat and ears) – I didn’t see any option since the other things I was doing wasn’t stopping it this time. Short history – I had suffered from chronic sinusitis for about 3 years straight approximately 7 years ago – leading up to sinus surgery (septoplasty and a 2nd surgery for making a "window" and turbinate reduction) – which still didn’t seem to help. I was doing the irrigation using your adapter with a Water Pik for quite some time and got the papaya enzymes locally (don’t think you were selling them at that time) and did everything I read about here! Finally, it seems what kicked it for me was using Claritin D 24 hour, Nasacort AQ, and Vit. C with quercetin on a daily basis for about a year. I then went with no problems at all for about the past 2-3 years. If a cold occurred or what I thought was anything at all kicking up the sinus symptoms, I’d start the Claritin D 24 hour back, and that had kept it at bay. For some reason when this particular "cold" hit back in late October, the Claritin D didn’t stop it from progressing to the infection – and that’s where I’m at now… So I’m wondering whether to add back Allegra D 24 hour (cheaper for me since insurance won’t cover the Claritin any more) and Rhinocort AQ (which I read on here is best as far as the preservatives) – or what exactly to do at this point to get back over this! The Augmentin does seem to have helped the sore throat finally (as of today – my 3rd day on it), so I’m pretty sure that making sure I take it long enough to kick this is a good idea, unless you have other opinions on that! I’m also doing other things: increasing my water intake, using xylitol spray, and am trying to either get a new Water Pik or might just use a bulb for now if I can’t get one soon. Do you think all this is a good idea for me at this point? Or are there other alternatives that you would recommend either in addition to, or instead of, what I’m doing? Thanks so much for your opinion on this… Jacki

Response:

Jack wrote: > in article K7Zlf.757$n1….@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at > sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/8/05 11:25 AM: >>If you can get her to give you a refill of Augmentin so that you take it >>continuously for 4 weeks (no intervening gaps), it might be worth a try >>because Augmentin is a good first-line antibiotic for sinusitis. My ENT >>would use it on me if I weren’t allergic to it. > That’s actually what she has said she’d prefer to do at this point, so I > will go with that to make sure it doesn’t just come right back. What > allergic symptoms do you experience with Augmentin?

Hives and rash. > Just curious. So far > it’s mainly just causing me some diarrhea (not bad, just aggravating)

That’s not really an allergic reaction. Antibiotics also kill off the "good" bacteria in the gut that help control water balance in there. Keep taking the probiotics, you’re doing the right thing. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

On 12/8/05 2:03 PM, in article BFBE17E5.1606D%gbarineauii100…@comcast.net, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Jack" wrote: > in article BFBD0296.2D98%hydro…@adelphia.net, Murray Grossan at > hydro…@adelphia.net wrote on 12/8/05 12:20 AM: >> It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more antibiotic >> than is necessary. Did you know that antibiotics have side effects? >> If you read the info here you would know that other factors help healing so >> that less antibiotic may be needed. > Thanks, Dr. Grossan… I definitely know the antibiotics have side effects > and wouldn’t even be using them if it hadn’t gotten excruciatingly painful > (throat and ears) – I didn’t see any option since the other things I was > doing wasn’t stopping it this time. Short history – I had suffered from > chronic sinusitis for about 3 years straight approximately 7 years ago – > leading up to sinus surgery (septoplasty and a 2nd surgery for making a > "window" and turbinate reduction) – which still didn’t seem to help. I was > doing the irrigation using your adapter with a Water Pik for quite some time > and got the papaya enzymes locally (don’t think you were selling them at > that time) and did everything I read about here! Finally, it seems what > kicked it for me was using Claritin D 24 hour, Nasacort AQ, and Vit. C with > quercetin on a daily basis for about a year. I then went with no problems > at all for about the past 2-3 years. If a cold occurred or what I thought > was anything at all kicking up the sinus symptoms, I’d start the Claritin D > 24 hour back, and that had kept it at bay. For some reason when this > particular "cold" hit back in late October, the Claritin D didn’t stop it > from progressing to the infection – and that’s where I’m at now… > So I’m wondering whether to add back Allegra D 24 hour (cheaper for me since > insurance won’t cover the Claritin any more) and Rhinocort AQ (which I read > on here is best as far as the preservatives) – or what exactly to do at this > point to get back over this! The Augmentin does seem to have helped the > sore throat finally (as of today – my 3rd day on it), so I’m pretty sure > that making sure I take it long enough to kick this is a good idea, unless > you have other opinions on that! I’m also doing other things: increasing > my water intake, using xylitol spray, and am trying to either get a new > Water Pik or might just use a bulb for now if I can’t get one soon. Do you > think all this is a good idea for me at this point? Or are there other > alternatives that you would recommend either in addition to, or instead of, > what I’m doing? > Thanks so much for your opinion on this… > Jacki

Allegra D and Claritin D have similar actions and individuals react differently – some say one works better than the other. Whichever works for you. You might want to wait to see if the medicaiton you are currently taking does the job for you. If you need a new irrigator, ask your insurance if they cover the Hydro Pulse. Increasingly more carriers do. Although Hydro Pulse doesn’t require a prescription, you will need to send one in for the insurance to cover. Best wishes, .

Response:

On 12/8/05 8:22 AM, in article o5Zlf.756$n1….@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Steven L." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - wrote: > Murray Grossan wrote: >> On 12/7/05 8:01 PM, in article BFBD1A46.15FE0%gbarineauii100…@comcast.net, >> "Jack" wrote: >>> in article gfMlf.516$QQ1….@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Steven L. at >>> sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net wrote on 12/7/05 8:45 PM: >>>> I think it’s more important to eradicate the infection thoroughly, which >>>> means you need to find a doctor who’s willing to give you more than 10 >>>> days worth of whatever antibiotic s/he prescribes. It seems like this >>>> is the third short course you’ve had. I sure don’t want your doctor to >>>> give you just 10 days worth of the "big guns" and ruin those for you too. >>> She will probably go along with whatever I ask for – so I’ve shared the Mayo >>> clinic article that says 4 weeks minimum! I’m just wondering now if I >>> should go ahead and SWITCH to one of those other antibiotics for 3-4 weeks >>> immediately or stay on the Augmentin for 3-4 weeks instead of just 10 >>> days… >>> Thanks again! >>> Jacki >> The Mayo article DOES NOT SAY FOUR WEEKS MINIMUM. >> THE PDR and the FDA does say that Augmentin is indicated for Sinus >> Infection. >> What the Mayo web site is is a general discussion. All patients vary and it >> says MAY require four weeks of Rx. >> Everyone is different and each patient needs to be treated individually. >> It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more antibiotic >> than is necessary. > The problem is that with sinusitis, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE for a > primary-care physician, a family doctor, to know what is "necessary." > They just don’t have the needed diagnostic tools–CT scans, endoscopes, > sinus cultures–that ENTs have. Thus they are unable to determine just > what antibiotic to take and how long to take it, till all sinus disease > is eliminated. > For primary-care physicians it is guesswork, and with sinusitis it’s > better to err on the side of wiping out the infection thoroughly rather > than undertreating it and allowing it to flare right up again.

What generally happens, what we see in our clinic is that the antibiotic did kill all the invading bacteria. But unless the cilia return to normal function, then the infection can start afresh.

Response:

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:40:53 -0500, Susan wrote: >x-no-archive: yes >Steven L. wrote: >> Livestock aren’t "raised in an unhealthy manner." But all livestock are >> prone to infectious diseases, just like your pet poodle is or you are. >> And every time livestock gets sick, that reduces the yield of meat, eggs >> and milk and raises prices. >Steven, feedlot livestock are raised in terrible conditions on foods >they’re not meant to eat. This makes them ill and causes them to >require a lot of antibiotics.

Yup. And spending most of one’s life knee-deep in fecal material is neither good nor natural for man or beast.

Response:

Hello jack….I found a site with an irrigator which will reach way up into nose if you have passage from prior surgery …I have been using it along with dr grossans to get a through cleaning …I was set for surgery 2 weeks ago would have been my 7th one but ent said nose looked good and put off the operation…I have been mixing a solution of 3oz white vinegar 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/2 oz graprfruit seed extract in 2 quarts clean water ….I use the grossan tip for the 1st rinse then switch to the #5 dsi tip for the long reach I have both tips that use a water pic unit……http://www.ethicare.com/prodinfo.html ……..seems to finally be working for me so thought I’d share…good luck….Mahalo michael "Jack" wrote in message

news:BFBE17E5.1606D%gbarineauii100845@comcast.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> in article BFBD0296.2D98%hydro…@adelphia.net, Murray Grossan at > hydro…@adelphia.net wrote on 12/8/05 12:20 AM: >> It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more >> antibiotic >> than is necessary. Did you know that antibiotics have side effects? >> If you read the info here you would know that other factors help healing >> so >> that less antibiotic may be needed. > Thanks, Dr. Grossan… I definitely know the antibiotics have side > effects > and wouldn’t even be using them if it hadn’t gotten excruciatingly painful > (throat and ears) – I didn’t see any option since the other things I was > doing wasn’t stopping it this time. Short history – I had suffered from > chronic sinusitis for about 3 years straight approximately 7 years ago – > leading up to sinus surgery (septoplasty and a 2nd surgery for making a > "window" and turbinate reduction) – which still didn’t seem to help. I > was > doing the irrigation using your adapter with a Water Pik for quite some > time > and got the papaya enzymes locally (don’t think you were selling them at > that time) and did everything I read about here! Finally, it seems what > kicked it for me was using Claritin D 24 hour, Nasacort AQ, and Vit. C > with > quercetin on a daily basis for about a year. I then went with no problems > at all for about the past 2-3 years. If a cold occurred or what I thought > was anything at all kicking up the sinus symptoms, I’d start the Claritin > D > 24 hour back, and that had kept it at bay. For some reason when this > particular "cold" hit back in late October, the Claritin D didn’t stop it > from progressing to the infection – and that’s where I’m at now… > So I’m wondering whether to add back Allegra D 24 hour (cheaper for me > since > insurance won’t cover the Claritin any more) and Rhinocort AQ (which I > read > on here is best as far as the preservatives) – or what exactly to do at > this > point to get back over this! The Augmentin does seem to have helped the > sore throat finally (as of today – my 3rd day on it), so I’m pretty sure > that making sure I take it long enough to kick this is a good idea, unless > you have other opinions on that! I’m also doing other things: increasing > my water intake, using xylitol spray, and am trying to either get a new > Water Pik or might just use a bulb for now if I can’t get one soon. Do > you > think all this is a good idea for me at this point? Or are there other > alternatives that you would recommend either in addition to, or instead > of, > what I’m doing? > Thanks so much for your opinion on this… > Jacki

Response:

On 12/24/05 10:44 PM, in article 6drrf.7875$hI1.4…@tornado.socal.rr.com, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"michael" wrote: > Hello jack….I found a site with an irrigator which will reach way up into > nose if you have passage from prior surgery …I have been using it along > with dr grossans to get a through cleaning …I was set for surgery 2 weeks > ago would have been my 7th one but ent said nose looked good and put off > the operation…I have been mixing a solution of 3oz white vinegar 1/2 > teaspoon salt 1/2 oz graprfruit seed extract in 2 quarts clean water ….I > use the grossan tip for the 1st rinse then switch to the #5 dsi tip for the > long reach I have both tips that use a water pic > unit……http://www.ethicare.com/prodinfo.html ……..seems to finally be > working for me so thought I’d share…good luck….Mahalo michael > "Jack" wrote in message > news:BFBE17E5.1606D%gbarineauii100845@comcast.net… >> in article BFBD0296.2D98%hydro…@adelphia.net, Murray Grossan at >> hydro…@adelphia.net wrote on 12/8/05 12:20 AM: >>> It would be very poor practice to arbitrarily give someone more >>> antibiotic >>> than is necessary. Did you know that antibiotics have side effects? >>> If you read the info here you would know that other factors help healing >>> so >>> that less antibiotic may be needed. >> Thanks, Dr. Grossan… I definitely know the antibiotics have side >> effects >> and wouldn’t even be using them if it hadn’t gotten excruciatingly painful >> (throat and ears) – I didn’t see any option since the other things I was >> doing wasn’t stopping it this time. Short history – I had suffered from >> chronic sinusitis for about 3 years straight approximately 7 years ago – >> leading up to sinus surgery (septoplasty and a 2nd surgery for making a >> "window" and turbinate reduction) – which still didn’t seem to help. I >> was >> doing the irrigation using your adapter with a Water Pik for quite some >> time >> and got the papaya enzymes locally (don’t think you were selling them at >> that time) and did everything I read about here! Finally, it seems what >> kicked it for me was using Claritin D 24 hour, Nasacort AQ, and Vit. C >> with >> quercetin on a daily basis for about a year. I then went with no problems >> at all for about the past 2-3 years. If a cold occurred or what I thought >> was anything at all kicking up the sinus symptoms, I’d start the Claritin >> D >> 24 hour back, and that had kept it at bay. For some reason when this >> particular "cold" hit back in late October, the Claritin D didn’t stop it >> from progressing to the infection – and that’s where I’m at now… >> So I’m wondering whether to add back Allegra D 24 hour (cheaper for me >> since >> insurance won’t cover the Claritin any more) and Rhinocort AQ (which I >> read >> on here is best as far as the preservatives) – or what exactly to do at >> this >> point to get back over this! The Augmentin does seem to have helped the >> sore throat finally (as of today – my 3rd day on it), so I’m pretty sure >> that making sure I take it long enough to kick this is a good idea, unless >> you have other opinions on that! I’m also doing other things: increasing >> my water intake, using xylitol spray, and am trying to either get a new >> Water Pik or might just use a bulb for now if I can’t get one soon. Do >> you >> think all this is a good idea for me at this point? Or are there other >> alternatives that you would recommend either in addition to, or instead >> of, >> what I’m doing? >> Thanks so much for your opinion on this… >> Jacki

Ask your doctor about using antibiotic in the pulsatile irrigation solution, that can be a help. Also, ask your insurance carrier if they reimburse for the Hydro Pulse Nasal/Sinus Irrigator. Insurance carriers are covering these days, but not all. Note: Hydro Pulse is my device sold by my company, Hydro Med.