Sinusitis FAQ

Told Not to Irrigate!

Question:

I have some surprising news! I went to see an ENT the other day, highly recommended by someone on the newsgroup. This ENT is the head of the Sinus Dept. at a major University hospital. I drove a couple hours to get there. He said something that surprised me very much. He said to stop irrigating!! He said that the irrigation can re-infect the sinuses. Also, that the irrigation stops the nose from doing its own cleaning, that it becomes dependent on the irrigation. That if I stop irrigating, hopefully my nose will get back to its own self-cleaning, to be a "normal nose". Has anyone else heard this? It really surprised me. Another thing that surprised me–high dosages of nasal sprays. Until I see him again, I’m supposed to use Nasonex, two sprays in each nostril 3x per day (instead of once), and also Astelin–two sprays in each nostril 3x per day (instead of twice). Those are high amounts. I’m sleepy from the Astelin. (Have others found Astelin to make you sleepy?) Feedback?

Response:

– Mike & Heather Collins UK Mikecheath…@oakwellmount.freeserve.co.uk MS <dontwr…@tothisaddress.com> wrote in message

news:36fd95f2.0@news.cwnet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have some surprising news! > I went to see an ENT the other day, highly recommended by someone on > the newsgroup. This ENT is the head of the Sinus Dept. at a major > University hospital. I drove a couple hours to get there. > He said something that surprised me very much. He said to stop > irrigating!! He said that the irrigation can re-infect the sinuses. > Also, that the irrigation stops the nose from doing its own cleaning, > that it becomes dependent on the irrigation. That if I stop > irrigating, hopefully my nose will get back to its own self-cleaning, > to be a "normal nose". > Has anyone else heard this? It really surprised me. > Another thing that surprised me–high dosages of nasal sprays. Until I > see him again, I’m supposed to use Nasonex, two sprays in each nostril > 3x per day (instead of once), and also Astelin–two sprays in each > nostril 3x per day (instead of twice). Those are high amounts. I’m > sleepy from the Astelin. (Have others found Astelin to make you > sleepy?) > Feedback? > I have been waiting for somebody to say this!  I have never irrigated for

precisely this same reason. Also if you are continually irrigating it would be very easy to mask an infection. The mucus in sinusitis is produced as part of the inflammatory response. Think of inflammation as a process which produces a cascade of substances This cascade can be blocked at certain points The Astelin (anti-histamine) prevents degranulation of the mast cells and therefore release of histamine. The Nasonex (steroid spray) blocks the late phase reaction in which prostaglandins and leukotreines are implicated. This ENT is trying to alleviate the inflammation. Yes, Astelin makes me very sleepy but maybe it will be tailed down once it is under control. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Seems to me logic is a bit off here. Masking an infection? Perhaps better to say mitigating the complications — easing the congestion. Is taking aspirin masking the pain? If so, do you have a problem with aspirin? If irrigation helps remove infected mucus, won’t that help fight the infection? If irrigation aides in the movement of the cilia, wont that help the body to eliminate the infection naturally? Why don’t you have the same reservations about using Astelin and Nasonex? Why not let the body do it’s work here too? will the body forget how to do its job by using these drugs? I dont believe two mins. of irrigation will cause the body to forget how it is supposed to work. Seems illogical to me. — "Sometimes you gotta dance like there’s no one watching."

Response:

Hi. yes, I have used high dosages of prescription nasal sprays periodically when I have a bad sinus infection, and it helps. As for irrigation, my doctor only recommends it occasionally, as a way to sort of "blast" the initial blockage.  Usually when he tells me to do this, he recommends spraying with Afrin first, waiting a bit, and then irrigating. Three days on with Afrin, three days off before it can be used again to avoid rebound. tigger > Has anyone else heard this? It really surprised me. > Another thing that surprised me–high dosages of nasal sprays. Until I > see him again, I’m supposed to use Nasonex, two sprays in each nostril > 3x per day (instead of once), and also Astelin–two sprays in each > nostril 3x per day (instead of twice). Those are high amounts. I’m > sleepy from the Astelin. (Have others found Astelin to make you > sleepy?) > Feedback?

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Response:

The nose does secrete important bacteria fighting products such as lysozyme. And when the cilia are functioning the nose is self cleansing.  Irrigation without restoring normal cilia may not be of value. The patients that I and others put on pulsatile irrigation are those whose cilia aren’t doing the job.  They aren’t functioning for various reasons – effect of a flu, diesel or other fumes,  exhaustion stage of allergy, or toxic effect of bacteria. This is easy to test for: it is called the saccharin test. You can have this test performed to see if the cilia are functioning normally at 16 pulses per second. If they are then you don’t need to treat.   Most of the nasal diseases we see show slow ciia, hence the recommendation to restore the cilia to normal speed. Best wishes, Murray Grossan, MD http://www.ent-consult.com Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

– Mike & Heather Collins UK Mikecheath…@oakwellmount.freeserve.co.uk Heterodox <heterod…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:pQxL2.80$MZ6.507@nnrp1.ptd.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Seems to me logic is a bit off here. Masking an infection? Perhaps better to > say mitigating the complications — easing the congestion. Is taking aspirin > masking the pain? If so, do you have a problem with aspirin? > If irrigation helps remove infected mucus, won’t that help fight the > infection? If irrigation aides in the movement of the cilia, wont that help > the body to eliminate the infection naturally? > Why don’t you have the same reservations about using Astelin and Nasonex? > Why not let the body do it’s work here too? will the body forget how to do > its job by using these drugs? > I dont believe two mins. of irrigation will cause the body to forget how it > is supposed to work. Seems illogical to me. > — > "Sometimes you gotta dance like there’s no one watching." > Yes, I would have a problem with somebody taking aspirin if they had a

brain tumour or drinking gallons of lemonade when they had diabetes. Mucus production is just a symptom of sinusitis – it is NOT a cause. Inflammation and infection and probably a faulty immune system are the causes. Diluton of the symptoms makes diagnosis of infection more difficult. Removal of infected mucus may help to irradicate an infection only in conjunction with the appropriate antibiotic. Astelin and Nasonex tackle the cause and therefore the symptoms of sinusitis inflammation.      I am asthmatic-I will always be asthmatic. It is very well controlled but that control is only achieved by a once daily dose of a steroid inhaler . It is not that the body has forgotten what to do  but that it is doing it too well that is the cause of hypersensitivity reactions

Response:

– Mike & Heather Collins UK Mikecheath…@oakwellmount.freeserve.co.uk Heterodox <heterod…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:pQxL2.80$MZ6.507@nnrp1.ptd.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Seems to me logic is a bit off here. Masking an infection? Perhaps better to > say mitigating the complications — easing the congestion. Is taking aspirin > masking the pain? If so, do you have a problem with aspirin? > If irrigation helps remove infected mucus, won’t that help fight the > infection? If irrigation aides in the movement of the cilia, wont that help > the body to eliminate the infection naturally? > Why don’t you have the same reservations about using Astelin and Nasonex? > Why not let the body do it’s work here too? will the body forget how to do > its job by using these drugs? > I dont believe two mins. of irrigation will cause the body to forget how it > is supposed to work. Seems illogical to me. > — > "Sometimes you gotta dance like there’s no one watching." > Yes I would have a problem with somebody taking aspirin if they had a bain

tumour.

Response:

I have followed this news group for several months. I have had chronic sinusitis for years. From time to time I have had severe problems, but this year was by far the worst ever. I listened to the comments here and evaluated them based on my life experience and a "gut feeling" as to what seemed worthwhile. An ENT I consulted told me I should have a deviated septum corrected — But it was the same septum I have lived with since my broken nose 32 yrs ago. I rationalized that perhaps other actions should be tried first. A short course of antibiotics didn’t work and I refused my Doctor’s recommendation for more. I worked on my overall well-being by getting long overdue exercise, eating better and eliminating dairy products. I began using some natural immune enhancing foods and herbs and reducing stress.  I also used nasal irrigation. A recent CT scan showed "amazing improvement", to quote the ENT. He no longer recommends the operation by the way. So you see, antibiotics are not always needed. The body may be able to heal itself….mine has for 50 years now. Sometimes I just need to be reminded that it needs my help to keep it as nature intended.   So, your comment that "may help to irradicate an infection only in conjunction with the appropriate antibiotic" is not correct. Antibiotics are not the only path to a cure. In addition, I realize mucus is not the cause of sinusitis, but giving a helping hand to your body via irrigation is logical. It is not masking the cause, but aiding in the healing process. I assume you know you have an infection or problem prior to irrigation. Giving aspirin for a headache is appropriate. Your comment about a brain tumor was not. Let’s not confuse my comments about "forgetting what to do" with the an a asthmatic. I thank all of you for your participation with this forum. I have learned many things. The actions I took worked for me. There are many paths in life and many people on them. We are all individuals with individual problems. Some people die from a bee sting…Some do not. Some need antibiotics to aide the body. Some do not. I think you see a pattern here…LOL! Best wishes for good health to all of you.

Response:

Which ones? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I began using some natural immune enhancing foods and herbs

Response:

>  Removal of > infected mucus may help to irradicate an infection only in conjunction with > the appropriate antibiotic.

I must disagree with the above, having just cured a sinus infection <following a head cold> by a combination of 1>afrin 2> garlic 3>Pau d’arco 4> irrigation, 3x day, alternating salt water and alcolol, but NO RX ANTIBIOTIC.

Response:

How much alcohol was you using in the mix? And why alcohol? Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -vscuzNOS…@home.com wrote: > 4> irrigation, 3x day, alternating salt water and alcolol, but NO RX > ANTIBIOTIC.

Response:

Dear Michael: Not Alcohol….It’s ALKOLOL…, sorry, I mis-spelled it in my post, which is a OTC liquid: a mucus solvent. I always find it behind the pharmacist’s counter <you have to ask for it> It is irritating if mixed too strongly, at least to me, so I use much less than the recommended1/2 to full strength. Hope this helps.

Response:

I am confused by Doctor Grossan’s comment that :" Irrigation without restoring normal cilia may not be of value. " Doctor Grossan’s own web site has info that states the following:"Regular irrigation not only makes you feel well for the moment, it improves your long-term susceptibility to sinus disease and colds." Other info on the site adds to this statement and makes additional claims for the benefits of irrigation. As an example I offer this:"The benefits of pulsate irrigation include: Washing with saline removes certain virus products, making less work for the body’s natural immune and disease-fighting systems." "A particularly helpful strategy is saline washing using a a  Water Pik

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