Sinusitis FAQ

Non-Vaccination Discrimination

Question:

One point in this typical Scudamorean diatribe particularly bothered me: WHEN Anne Bouet picked up her six-month-old son from his cot one day, she felt she was picking up a rag doll. His legs dangled uselessly beneath him. ‘It was the first inkling we had that something was gravely wrong, says Anne, a teacher from Three Bridges, Crawley, Sussex. Edward, now 11 suffered polio following a routine vaccination for Diptheria, Polio and Tetanus (DPT). Symptoms developed 22 days after his

In the USA, the "P" in "DPT" is for Pertussis, not Polio.  Is this different in the UK? If not, I’d be at a loss to know how this little boy picked up polio from a DPT shot.      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.      "I talk to America every day — and America is *stupid*."                        – my girlfriend, the customer service rep

Response:

Okay, Rich.  So what’s the status of those who’ve been vaccinated, yet (for whatever idiosyncratic reason) *don’t* acquire immunity?

Dumb question, we don’t know who those people are. Just curious (and realistic). JG, who’ll *always* be looking out for #1 (and #2-#4) instead of society as a whole )  

Just like a cancer cell. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

Incidentally I am NOT in favor of making vaccines mandatory. I AM in favor of restricting children from attending public school if not vaccinated.

Okay, Rich.  So what’s the status of those who’ve been vaccinated, yet (for whatever idiosyncratic reason) *don’t* acquire immunity?  Are they "in" (after all, they *tried*) or "out"? Just curious (and realistic). JG, who’ll *always* be looking out for #1 (and #2-#4) instead of society as a whole )   "You have no idea how promising the world begins to look once you have decided to have it all for yourself.  And how much healthier your decisions are once they become entirely selfish." –Anita Brookner (b. 1938), British novelist, art historian. Mr. Neville, in Hotel du Lac, ch. 7 (1984).

Response:

 Once again, why are you afraid of catching rubella (example) if you are supposedly immune to it?

I have answered it three times, I guess you are just too stupid to understand. Can you understand this,  moron? A vac cuts down on my chance of getting a disease but it does not eliminate it. But if you had the ability to think, you would be anit vac. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

writes: If vaccines really work, then if your kid is vaccinated why would you have to  worry if your neighbors kid isn’t?   Because they don’t work perfectly.  Why is the world black and white to you?  Do you think there’s no intermediate choice between the ideas that vaccines work in everyone, and the idea that they don’t work at all, and are worthless?

Enough is enough is enough…  Vaccines *do* fail to confer immunity in many recipients (5-15% seems to be about average, although the "primary" failure rate for some vaccines  is undoubtedly much higher).  Those in whom a vaccine doesn’t "take" are just as susceptible as those who aren’t vaccinated and are therefore just as likely to be (become) "little incubators."  What’s your point here, Steve?  Do we award merit badges to the brave souls (saps?) who, though vacinated, didn’t develop antibodies?  (Well, gosh-golly-gee, at least they *tried*.) Perhaps we should obtain antibody titers on *everyone*; we could then brand those deemed "nonimmune" (while awarding little gold stars to those who "tried") so we could tell, at a glance, whom to avoid. JG

Response:

If vaccines really work, then if your kid is vaccinated why would you have to  worry if your neighbors kid isn’t?

Why do you anti vac wackos keep asking this stupid question? The reason is vacs are not perfect. It takes a great deal of courage for informed parents to resist medical programming and not vaccinate their kids.

Nope. Just irrational fear. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If 20 people are in a room and 19 of them have been vaccinated, what danger does the 20th pose to them? More than they should have to put up with. None, unless, of course, vaccinations don’t really work! Vacs work, they wiped out smallpox totally, they just aren’t perfect. So why do you idiots keep bringing up this useless argument? Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

        You’ve avoided my question three times now.  It is apparent that you have no idea what you are talking about.  Once again, why are you afraid of catching rubella (example) if you are supposedly immune to it? I don’t expect an answer, but rather your usual BS remarks.  Have a nice day and make sure no one sneezes near you.  You just might get some disease from it!  Steve

Response:

writes: If vaccines really work, then if your kid is vaccinated why would you have to  worry if your neighbors kid isn’t?

   Because they don’t work perfectly.  Why is the world black and white to you?  Do you think there’s no intermediate choice between the ideas that vaccines work in everyone, and the idea that they don’t work at all, and are worthless?   It takes a great deal of courage for informed parents to resist medical programming and not vaccinate their kids.

     And some stupidity, also. America was built on freedom and that is what keeps this country great.

     Freedom doesn’t extend to being able to do whatever you want to do.  You’re not free to leave your garbage in your yard, and breed rats in it, because they spread.  You’re not free to poop in the water supply, even if you want to.  And you’re not free to let you kids go around like little incubators to amplify this month’s plague.  Hell, you’re not even free to transport them without seat belts, even though seat belts kill a few kids every year.                                      Steve Harris, M.D.

Response:

Apparently it is in your own mindset, on a subconscious level, that you consider mothers who choose to vaccinate their children as "unnatural." There is nothing wrong with being unnatural. Using a computer is not natural. Neither is using a toilet. If she is really a natural mom, I don’t think she gets many house guests! he poor people who were lacking in hygiene had built natural immunity against the disease!  N-A-T-U-R-A-L I-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y-. LOL. You are so full of it. Poor people got polio, too.

        Yes, poor people also got polio.  See if you can comprehend this:  the RATE of polio was more prevalent in the rich than in the poor.  Can you understand the difference? If your child is vaccinated and immunized against rubella, how can a child who has rubella pass it on to her?   Hey, stupid, one things you antivac wacs can’t understand is that we normal people understand that vacs are good, but not perfect.

        Uhhh…so what’s your point, genius?  You have absolutely nothing to say, do you.  Your real intent is to rattle your pitiful mouth off because you’re probably too pitiful even to pull yourself away from your computer. Soak it up, buddy!  If they aren’t perfect, why do you think everyone should get them?  Why make absolute mandatory requirements when the thing isn’t absolutely effective or safe?  You’re afraid people are going to pass on diseases to you because you mhave no faith in your system of health care. There’s something to put a lot of stock in!  Take your health into your own hands and try to get a clue, please.  Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

If vaccines really work, then if your kid is vaccinated why would you have to  worry if your neighbors kid isn’t?  It takes a great deal of courage for informed parents to resist medical programming and not vaccinate their kids. I’m not for vaccines or against them, but we need to guarantee personal freedom in this critical decision.  Parents must continue to have the right to chose whether or not to vaccinate their kids.  There is more than ample evidence that contradicts both the safety and effectiveness of mass childhood vaccinations. America was built on freedom and that is what keeps this country great. Parents must have full control over decisions that can have serious implications for their children. Paul Grenier DC

Response:

Why make absolute mandatory requirements when the thing isn’t absolutely effective or safe?  

   And school buses without shoulder harnesses are?  But the law in many places doesn’t give you the choice of whether or not to send your kids to school.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Apparently it is in your own mindset, on a subconscious level, that you consider mothers who choose to vaccinate their children as "unnatural." There is nothing wrong with being unnatural. Using a computer is not natural. Neither is using a toilet. If she is really a natural mom, I don’t think she gets many house guests! he poor people who were lacking in hygiene had built natural immunity against the disease!  N-A-T-U-R-A-L I-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y-. LOL. You are so full of it. Poor people got polio, too.    Yes, poor people also got polio.  See if you can comprehend this:  the RATE of polio was more prevalent in the rich than in the poor.  Can you understand the difference?

   It should be remembered that polio the clinical syndrome is only the tip of the iceberg of polio the disease.  Most polio is assymptomatic. The older you are when you get it, the more likely you are to get the nasty paralytic symptoms, ala FDR.  So yes, it hit the rich worse.  The poor got it earlier, and not so badly– like chickenpox and mononucleosis.  Sanitation actually makes some diseases WORSE.  No halfway measures are acceptable.  You either have to vaccinate it out of existence, or else encourage kids NOT to wash hands…                                         Steve Harris, M.D.

Response:

   Yes, poor people also got polio.  See if you can comprehend this:  the RATE of polio was more prevalent in the rich than in the poor.  Can you understand the difference?

Yep, so? If they aren’t perfect, why do you think everyone should get them?

Because they are good, just not perfect. Why make absolute mandatory requirements when the thing isn’t absolutely effective or safe?  

Never said they should be. And *nothing* is absolutely safe or effective. You might want to visit us in the real world sometime. Your real intent is to rattle your pitiful mouth off because you’re probably too pitiful even to pull yourself away from your computer.

You’re projecting. Do you know what that means? Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a natural mom I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter in any way. A 1% chance of death and /or retardation is enough for me.  Although, I    Excellent!  Congratulations for taking your health into your own hands! have suffered greatly with criticism from others especially my ill informed family who are completely brain-washed by the government propaganda.    Things are starting to change.  The stupidest arguments come from the schools:  "you have to vaccinate your kid or she’ll infect others…".  How?! If 20 people are in a room and 19 of them have been vaccinated, what danger does the 20th pose to them?  None, unless, of course, vaccinations don’t really work!

   Unless they don’t work PERFECTLY (nobody said they did), and unless there are some kids with cancer or other problems in schools, whose immune systems can’t handle vaccinations (which there are).    So bring your little incubator in.  Be selfish.

Response:

If 20 people are in a room and 19 of them have been vaccinated, what danger does the 20th pose to them?

More than they should have to put up with. None, unless, of course, vaccinations don’t really work!

Vacs work, they wiped out smallpox totally, they just aren’t perfect. So why do you idiots keep bringing up this useless argument? Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

   Why, so she won’t infect other kids?

Yes. Also, why isn’t it mandatory that all people must have vaccinations if they are such life-saving devices?

That makes no sense. There are lots of life saving devices that are not mandatory. Duh. It’s much easier to blame a doctor for your problems than yourself, I suppose.

I suppose it is easier for you to babble than to get a clue. I don’t blame anyone for anything. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

Apparently it is in your own mindset, on a subconscious level, that you consider mothers who choose to vaccinate their children as "unnatural."

There is nothing wrong with being unnatural. Using a computer is not natural. Neither is using a toilet. If she is really a natural mom, I don’t think she gets many house guests! he poor people who were lacking in hygiene had built natural immunity against the disease!  N-A-T-U-R-A-L I-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y-.

LOL. You are so full of it. Poor people got polio, too. If your child is vaccinated and immunized against rubella, how can a child who has rubella pass it on to her?  

Hey, stupid, one things you antivac wacs can’t understand is that we normal people understand that vacs are good, but not perfect. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

I hope they keep your kid out of public schools. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Yeah, you disprove that saying.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Tue, 3 Feb 1998, As a natural mom I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter in any way. A 1% chance of death and /or retardation is enough for me.  Although, I have suffered greatly with criticism from others especially my ill informed family who are completely brain-washed by the government propaganda. My daughter has never had an ear infection , is more healthy than most children her age (2), and given the proper diet and supplementation, will not require any medication, nor any wasted visits to the doctor. My question is have any of you found the same rebellion against your choice? Jenet Rushiti "Natural mom" — as if other mothers aren’t "natural"" because they choose to enure the safety of their own children and others?

        This is a huge flaw in your argument, already.  PLease do us the favor of taking a basic course in logic.   Does that make you virtuous and them, what, criminals?  

        Uhh…that’s a pretty far stretch.  She called herself a Natural Mom, not a justified mom or righteous mom. That’s a lot of mothers you are branding as "unnatural." "Smart" is more like it (which makes you  . . .. Stupid!)) .

        She never called any other mothers "unnatural".  In your mind they have been nranded as unnatural.  Apparently it is in your own mindset, on a subconscious level, that you consider mothers who choose to vaccinate their children as "unnatural."  Perhaps some psychotherapy may help you.  This is a pretty long reply…I wonder what other flaws in your fragile psyche will be found… You state a "1% risk of retardation or death" as if it was an accepted fact in order to scare people who don’t know the vapidity of that figure. (In fact, to scare them into buying your quack  products, see below). A "1% risk" of serious consequences is a tremendous overstatement, for which there is abslutely NO scientific evidence, in spite of the misinformation and scare tactics of alternaquacks. It varies by vaccine, but the HUGE majority of "adverse reactions" to vaccines are transient (a day or so of fever, malaise, or rash) and the even HUGER majority of children who are vaccinated have no reactions whatsoever.  I’ve had the

        You mean ones that are apparent to outsiders.  Genetic mutations (most likely point missense), weakening of NATURAL immunity (or did you forget we have "immune systems?"), etc are all distinct possibilities with vaccinations, although their effects would not be immediately noticeable. same reactions to Goldenseal and Echinacea, by the way, which I took in good faith as a form of  self-experimention (if you want the details, ask).  They didn’t cure anything, or even help my chronic sinusitis, but

        Maybe this was a result of vaccinations and immunizations you’ve had as a child? they sure made me feel flushed and dizzy.  As an "artificial dad," I guess I deserved to be made sick by herbal nostrums, though.  I hear they have a 1% risk of causing serious paranoid delusions and cause people to spout venal marketing jargon too!

        I guess self-prescription of chemicals you know nothing about is fine, huh?  Maybe you took the wrong dosage or have a weakness toward these products. DO you take the same maverick approach to your children’s health?  BTW, you don’t consider vaccination commercials on every channel all day long several times a day all year by the AMA a marketing plan? Perhaps you would like to  live in New Jersey, where there is currently a virulent epidemic of rubella among unvaccinated children but vaccinated children are just fine. At least these children have the excuse that most of them come from poor societies without decent public health standards.

        Whatever…when polio first hit the US it was much more prevalent in rich society than poor.  The poor people who were lacking in hygiene had built natural immunity against the disease!  N-A-T-U-R-A-L I-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y-. But the worst part is that you want to claim "rights" to expose other children to your child’s illnesses, and for that matter to put your own

        What an idiot!  This is perfect!  Thank you so much for convincing me you have no clue!  If your child is vaccinated and immunized against rubella, how can a child who has rubella pass it on to her?  Does this make any sense to you or are you just completely worthless?  WHy did you get your child immunized, anyway?  Is it because everyone else is doing it or what?  If I am immune to Disease A and someone with Diesease A walks by me, I won’t get it!   child at risk of death and serious disease because you are too paranoid to act rationally.  Children who get rubella, emasles, etc. now increase the reistance and virulence of the pathogenic strain and render the vaccines less effective for everybody else.  I suppose you believe that you should

        Whoa, buddy!  If I introduce a chemical that will destroy 95% of all polio, but the polio that survives (obviously) isn’t destroyed, then I have to make a new, most likwely stronger chemical to destroy them.  Super-diseases are the result of mass vaccination/immunization and indiscriminate use of antibiotics, NOT allowing people to let nature take its course.  You have been so completely brainwashed it is ridiculous!  Don’t pass this on to your children! also be allowed to drive any speed you wish on the wrong side of the road (is it your "right?"), to snort cocaine before going to work as a pilot, etc.?  It’s the same damn logic.

        Again, look up that logic course.  They are completely different arguments. Your anecdotal evidence is useless.  The great majority of two year olds who have been vaccinated are perfectly healthy and don’t have ear infections, etc.  So there is no way to infer that your daughter’s health is a consequence of your rejection of civilized society in an age of science and reason.. Since the alternative supplements you are feeding your child are not produced under scientifically managed conditions, (sterile assays, ccarefully calibrated pediatric dosages for children’s versions, consistent dosage levels in all formulations, standardized inert ingredients, etc.) and their side effects and risks are not fully understood, you may be harming your child by dosing her with these

        You’re tarting to sound like you have an article from Newsweek in front of you!  You haven’t been copying again, have you?  You think medical "science" is proven?  It is a clinical science.  No absolute proof exists in clinical science.  Furthermore, try asking a doctor what the complete physiological effect of aspirin is on the body.  If he gives an answer you have the right to call him a liar!  They don’t even know what aspirin does, for God’s sake! products. But "natural moms" are good, so that couldn’t be true.  Only bad "unnatural" moms hurt their children!

        This is true, if you interpret "nature" as Shakespeare did in _King Lear_. Or could it be . . .  NO!  Not paranoia, nor "honest concern,"  but a SALES PITCH?  Indeed, our "natural mom" runs a website (funny how selective these "natural" paragons of virtue are in their rejection of science and technology!) where she is SELLING the whole placebo-chest full of herbs  and supplements and books.  So this is a priori a suspect post,

        I don’t remember her pushing any products on to anyone.  She has a .sig file, so shoot her!   because it is designed to sell her products (no doubt a multi-level marketing scheme) to gullible people who think she is only trying to do them a favor. Oooh!  Just look at all those pictures of buff healthy moms

        Gullible.  The opposite of you, right?  You’ve been duped (more than once, I suspect) by the biggest conspiracy in health care!  And now, you are their agent!  Classic! and their darling babies, all looking so smug and upper-middle-class. How about a picture of a poor, unvaccinated  immigrant child in New Jersey shivering and covered with rash from rubella? How much more "natural"

        You still haven’t made a connection to vaccinations and immunity.  If I take you and put you out on the streets to live without proper diet, health care, and the tools for basic survival, you’re liable to come up with some pretty nasty sicknesses, too.  You are showing correlation, but that has nothing to do with cause and effect.  Maybe that community college near you has a course on stats. could you be?  Or a picture of someone else’s vaccinated child somewhere in the future coming down with a vaccine-resistant strain of polio myelitis because you chose not to vaccinate your little incubator of pathogens.  I see you are willing to put homeopathic medicines into babies — "drugs" (er, I mean "food supplements") which claim to work on the same principle as vaccines, except that they don’t work because they use poisons instead of killed pathogens. So a dash of arsenic is OK, but a vaccine which has been tested and refined in clinical trials and over decades of use is not, even when one is proven not to work (homeopathy) and one has utterly altered the public health of modern societies for the better?

        Are you aware that vaccines come in batches?  Each batch is traced and the results are culminated so that concerned people with the proper resources can get ahold of statistics from each batch.  I talked to a mother who works for a gov.t agency.  She is getting her child vaccinated, but she is monitoring different batches.  Her MD, who has access to the batch lists, proceeded to try and immunize the kid without checking th batch number.  He was P/O.’d when the mom asked for the batch number, then checked her own list.  It turns out that that batch had a high number of secondary infections and adverse reactions associated with it.  She said "I’ll be back some other time" and walkedf out

… read more »

Response:

As a natural mom I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter in any way. A 1% chance of death and /or retardation is enough for me.  Although, I have suffered greatly with criticism from others especially my ill informed family who are completely brain-washed by the government propaganda. My daughter has never had an ear infection , is more healthy than most children her age (2), and given the proper diet and supplementation, will not require any medication, nor any wasted visits to the doctor. My question is have any of you found the same rebellion against your choice? Jenet Rushiti Knowledge is Empowerment http://www.naturalmom.com

Response:

I hope they keep your kid out of public schools. Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

As a natural mom I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter in any way. A 1% chance of death and /or retardation is enough for me.  Although, I

        Excellent!  Congratulations for taking your health into your own hands! have suffered greatly with criticism from others especially my ill informed family who are completely brain-washed by the government propaganda.

        Things are starting to change.  The stupidest arguments come from the schools:  "you have to vaccinate your kid or she’ll infect others…".  How?! If 20 people are in a room and 19 of them have been vaccinated, what danger does the 20th pose to them?  None, unless, of course, vaccinations don’t really work! My daughter has never had an ear infection , is more healthy than most children her age (2), and given the proper diet and supplementation, will not require any medication, nor any wasted visits to the doctor.

        You mean she isn’t on a regular antibiotic regimen like a lot of other kids her age?   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My question is have any of you found the same rebellion against your choice? Jenet Rushiti Knowledge is Empowerment http://www.naturalmom.com

Response:

I hope they keep your kid out of public schools.

        Why, so she won’t infect other kids?  You people (especially you) are so unbelievably ignorant of facts it is incredible!  Why would you allow yourself to be injected with a vaccination/immunization if your doctor can’t prove you have a deficiency in those antibodies?!  Because, in most cases, they can’t, and the vaccination policy was adopted with VERY little research and almost no scientific proof.  Why do you think so many MD’s are starting to rethink things?  Also, why isn’t it mandatory that all people must have vaccinations if they are such life-saving devices?  Because they aren’t!         Unfortunately, people such as yourself feel the need to receive health in a bottle from someone else.  Apparently you can’t handle the idea that health comes from within.  I guess you don’t want that responsibility.  It’s much easier to blame a doctor for your problems than yourself, I suppose. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jet Silverman  To email me, remove the x. (I won’t buy from anyone who sends me ads.) If ignorance is bliss, why aren’t there more happy people?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a natural mom I have chosen not to vaccinate my daughter in any way. A 1% chance of death and /or retardation is enough for me.  Although, I have suffered greatly with criticism from others especially my ill informed family who are completely brain-washed by the government propaganda. My daughter has never had an ear infection , is more healthy than most children her age (2), and given the proper diet and supplementation, will not require any medication, nor any wasted visits to the doctor. My question is have any of you found the same rebellion against your choice? Jenet Rushiti Knowledge is Empowerment http://www.naturalmom.com

We had one of our docs have a go but we soon put him to right—he didn’t know anything really.  The other doctor in the practice isn’t really bothered.  They get about

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