Filed under: Acute sinusitis
Question:
Hello, I feel irrigation is just a way to shove fungs and bacteria up farther and sooner into places where it wouldnot have gone in the first place, so please i beg of you all please take a hard look at this: The first thing i must say is unless you are on your death-bed, use Amphotericin B only as a nasal spray, because it can and has caused heart attack when taken internally http://health.yahoo.com/health/ency/adam/003504/treatment http://www.umc-cares.org/health_info/ADAM/Articles/003503.asp Here are all the things you need to know:: “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` “““““““““““““““` Here is some latest coming out of the Mayo Clinic: http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/G220.htm http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=340935 “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` “““““““ "Killing Fungi" http://www.mall-net.com/mcs/afung.html “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` “““““““““““ A neat statement to remember: "Amphotericin B The studies from the Mayo Clinic found that nasal lavage/wash with Amphotericin B is much more effective than oral amphotericin B, with virtually none of the side effects" “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` “““““““““““““ Most fungi simply colonise the sinuses and sit there without causing any inflammation. Occasionally the fungi may invade the mucous membranes and provoke intense inflammation and allergic response. Even more rarely the fungi may invade the bones of the facial skeleton and damage blood vessels and nerves, even extending to the eye and brain (Mucormycosis) Continued at: http://www.medicdirect.co.uk/clinics/default.ihtml?step=4&pid=1733. “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` ““““““““““““““` Researchers at the Mayo Clinic found fungi in 96 percent of people with chronic sinusitis" http://www.drmirkin.com/morehealth/G220.htm “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` ““““““““““““` Grapefruit seed extracts: http://www.herbalremedies.com/actomayclinm.html “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` ““““““““““““““ http://www.doctorfungus.com/thedrugs/Ampho_Deoxycholate.htm “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` ““““ Therapy for the Amphotericin B deoxycholate, nose spray is: 3 months; 5 squirts each nostral; 2 times aday; Another Possible Procedure, however using ONLY the 10-squirts worth, and only done twice aday, and remembering this MUST NOT be swallowed; http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C55833.html The Sinus Flooding Procedure: a. Lay on a bed face up with the head hanging over the edge of the mattress so the nostrils are pointing straight up toward the ceiling. b. Use an eye dropper to fill each nostril with the rinse solution. Keep filling each nostril until the rinse solution starts to drip in the throat. Remain in the same position for 2 to 3 minutes. c. Roll over on the stomach and let the head flop forward over the edge of the mattress. Remain in that position for 2 to 3 minutes then sit up and let the rinse drain out through the nose. (THIS FOLLOWING DOESNOT APPLY TO US AT THE PRESENT AND/OR UNTIL AN ACTUAL "WASH" IS MADE AVAILABLE) d. Important: Repeat this procedure 45 minutes later. The two rinses 45 minutes apart constitute a single rinse session. Perform two or more such rinse sessions per day. Relief will typically be noticeable by the second day. It is not unusual for the sinus infection to be gone within three days. e. Repeat two sessions per day until the infection subsides. Very persistent infections may require five to seven day or more. “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` ““““““““““““““““““““` Amphotericin B deoxycholate nasal spray/wash is shipped in a cold pack and must be kept refrigerated. Only a one month’s supply at a time is available, because it is so perishable, however i finally found a "Dixie" Mayo Clinic near me and am now using the "wash", not "drops", and is $50.00 cheaper than the above-mentioned drugstore. “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` “““““““““““““““““ Here are interesting statements i saw while rushing through the Internet. It is nice to know if you absolutely must put your life at risk with Amphotericin B, you can quickly get off of it : "Surgical treatment is mandatory. Initiate medical treatment with systemic antifungals once invasion is diagnosed. Amphotericin B (2 g/d) is recommended; this can be replaced by ketoconazole or itraconazole once the disease is under control". AND AGAIN: "Acute invasive fungal sinusitis Emergent treatment is necessary once this condition is suspected. Initiate systemic antifungal treatment after surgical debridement. High doses of amphotericin B (1-1.5 mg/kg/d) are recommended. Oral itraconazole (400 mg/d) can replace amphotericin B once the acute stage has passed. Treatment of the underlying immune deficiency, if possible, is desirable." Picture of chronic sinusitis: http://www.med.sc.edu:1000/chronicsinusitis.htm A tour of the nose and sinuses: Virtual Sinus Laboratory http://www.entnet.org/healthinfo/sinus/lab.cfm “““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““` ““““““““““““““` Ignor the following; it is just my Sig. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + MustRead! http://WWW.PAMINIFARM.COM "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" Hosea 4:6 Good luck, and may God be with you. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + "TROLL ALERT" Psycho troll, "Harry" at: ha…@leavemealone.com Kidnaps nearly every one of my posts for the purpose of bombing them with libel, down-right lies and obscene smut, so please DoNot Feed The Troll. Just ignor her; every body else does. (: Nearly ten years ago I brought news: alt.arabic.politics back from near death, so donot let "Harry" ha…@leavemealone.com bulldoze it under as her ilk do to http://www.iap.org Proof Harry is also a criminal, because "Psycho Trolling" Is A Crime: http://www.fritzliess.com/troll_alert/archives/cat_troll_resources.html BTW if "Harry" ha…@leavemealone.com bothers you, report her. I did and it did no good. because America loves "criminals", you can tell that by for whom they vote in. Just one "criminal" or Movie Star after another. It all started with the movie "God Father". + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Response:
I asked my ENT at Cleveland Clinic about this. He said they are now trying to develop a theraputic irrigation regimen for fungal infections in the sinus. I also tested positive for Candida in my sinus, throat, mouth, and esophagus. That was from being on Cipro for months and it destroyed my good bacteria. I wanted to irrigate with Acidophilus caps too and he said don’t do it. I keep telling him there has to be some advancement in medical science whereas they can come up with a anti-microbial or anti-fungal wash for the nose. He says they are still working on it. Sigh.
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On 29 Apr 2004 06:55:08 -0700, westerv…@peoplepc.com (Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Westervelt) wrote: >I have used the GROSSAN sinus irrigator tip and Water-Pick for over >five years >and am completely pleased - I have led many friends and relatives to >purchase >the system and they are pleased. >Now and perhaps in the past my sinus infection is a fungus – and >verified by the >SALIVA test. >I am irrigating three times a day with 2.5 tsp salt – - but, the heavy >white >and stringy discharge continues. >I am taking Acidophilus twice a day – along with Vitamins : A, >B-Complex, >Garlec, etc. >Has anyone tried or considered adding the powder from a Acidophilus >capsuel >to the filtered water and salt solution – in the hope that it would >more directly combat the fungus ? >I am trying to avoid Diflucan, Nystatin, Nyzoril, etc.
I would at the top of my head say nope don’t try. The sinuses are meant to be sterile just like most other body parts. The intestines are the one exception I can think of. Diflucan is great for fungal problems! why dont you want to try that? btw collodial silver in the sinuses work frigging great not only does it kill pathogens it restores tissue health. Its use in that capacity is well known(burn victims). My sinuses have NEVER been better.
Response:
> collodial silver in the >sinuses work frigging great not only does it kill pathogens it >restores tissue health. Its use in that capacity is well known(burn >victims). My sinuses have NEVER been better.
What brand of collidial silver do you use? How much do you use in your saline solution for irrigation?
Response:
On 29 Apr 2004 16:02:08 GMT, dreamha…@aol.com (DreamHarp7) wrote: >> collodial silver in the >>sinuses work frigging great not only does it kill pathogens it >>restores tissue health. Its use in that capacity is well known(burn >>victims). My sinuses have NEVER been better. >What brand of collidial silver do you use? >How much do you use in your saline >solution for irrigation?
I only have GNC brand which I’ve read is inferior to others. Anyway I use a half droperfull in the final bit of saline. Hold it there for awhile then let go. I’ve gone to even skipping a day on my sinuses which to me is a godsend. I also take orally for a systemic infection. also great stuff if you have gum disease.
Response:
"Dali" <bre…@cya.net> wrote in message
news:q1c290prg9dtfuvn46ggmmrmp34nedkj4j@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On 29 Apr 2004 16:02:08 GMT, dreamha…@aol.com (DreamHarp7) wrote: > >> collodial silver in the > >>sinuses work frigging great not only does it kill pathogens it > >>restores tissue health. Its use in that capacity is well known(burn > >>victims). My sinuses have NEVER been better. > >What brand of collidial silver do you use? > >How much do you use in your saline > >solution for irrigation? > I only have GNC brand which I’ve read is inferior to others. Anyway I > use a half droperfull in the final bit of saline. Hold it there for > awhile then let go. I’ve gone to even skipping a day on my sinuses > which to me is a godsend. I also take orally for a systemic infection. > also great stuff if you have gum disease.
I know that even to use colloidal silver in irrigation is controversial. I was told by a very prominent doctor (published in journals, has books out, etc.) that using colloidal silver in nasal irrigation is fine, but to INGEST it, that is to consume poison. You might as well be drinking mercury. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I have used the GROSSAN sinus irrigator tip and Water-Pick for over five years and am completely pleased - I have led many friends and relatives to purchase the system and they are pleased. Now and perhaps in the past my sinus infection is a fungus – and verified by the SALIVA test. I am irrigating three times a day with 2.5 tsp salt – - but, the heavy white and stringy discharge continues. I am taking Acidophilus twice a day – along with Vitamins : A, B-Complex, Garlec, etc. Has anyone tried or considered adding the powder from a Acidophilus capsuel to the filtered water and salt solution – in the hope that it would more directly combat the fungus ? I am trying to avoid Diflucan, Nystatin, Nyzoril, etc.
Response:
Question:
Hello, First of all, let me thank the frequent newsgroup posters and FAQ contributors for excellent work done. I’m just sorry I didn’t find this place years ago… I’ve read the FAQ, some usenet archives and this is my first post. Please be gentle 
Some background and description of my conditions: I have had "dry nose and congested nose" as far as I can remember. I’ve seen numerous ENTs about it and they say it’s "normal" and the only thing I can do is use "saline/salt sprays". Nobody sees anything abnormal in my condition, they think my nose/cavities looks ok. This dry nose means that I have constantly blocked nostrils, especially on the left one. They slowly build up of dry mucus which I can’t even get out by blowing my nose. I try not to blow too hard these days, but not even hard blowing helps. Often I dig it out, although I know it’s not good. It’s a very tough habit to control when I’m lost in though (or sleeping). I’ve been tested for allergies and have none (normal ‘prick test’). We clean our flat regularly and use linen/materials meant for allergic people. I have no polyps, my mucous membranes are "normal" according to ENTS, perhaps sometimes "slightly irritated" according to them. According to one of the ENTs I’ve seen, I have slightly enlarged left nostril cavity which likely contributes to the left nostril getting so dried up with mucus so quickly. There is a treatment for this: surgical implantation of metallic/ceramic (I forget which) rods into the cartillage to support the area better. You can guess I’m not very interested in that. I have had acute (not chronic) sinusitis perhaps 4-6 times in my adult life many years ago. I’ve never been punctured (i.e. cavities pumped dry through surgery), but have been on a couple of antibiotics for the duration of my sinusitis. I don’t use decongestants or antihistamines. I like spicy food and it tends to help my dry nose, by making my nose drip with clear runny mucus. However, my intestinal tract (I’m diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome) doesn’t like the spicy food that much. I also have another thing blocking my breathing through my nose. When I go to sleep I usually end up picking my nose (digging out the dry stuff that completely blocks airflow) in my sleep. First I though this was helpful, but not anymore. It often results in bleeding membranes and even more clogged nose. Also, when I lie on my side, it’s as if there is a blockage that moves from my one nostril to another, depending on which side I lie on. This blockage is different from the dry mucus that also blocks my nostrils. Or so it feels. I don’t often get colds and I haven’t had sinusitis in a long time (10 years or so). Three days ago the symptoms started and I’m now in the middle of headache/eyeache/constant clear mucus with yellow spots/throat ache/etc phase. I can’t be 100% sure, but boy does this feel like sinusitis again. I feel totally drained out. I usually don’t get sinusitis anymore and I attribute it to my mostly vegetarian (+fish) diet, regular sport regimen and regular intake of fish oil, zinc, vitamin c, garlic, some echinae and asetylic acid (when I get symptoms of a cold). However, if I lapse from my orderly regimen for longer periods and get really stressed, then I’m in the danger zone. At least this is how I explain my situation to me. Now, my questions are: – Is there anything I can do about my constant dry nose and inability to breath freely at night? Nose sprays don’t seem to help me a lot, except perhaps pure sesame oil spray, but I find even that causes me to pick my nose during sleep. – The air where I live is very dry esp. during wintertime. Is it safe to use humidifiers to help with my condition. How about sleeping in much colder temperature (currently 20-21C)? Every time I go into the wild and sleep outdoors, I breath more freely and my nose is less congested. Unfortunately I can’t sleep in the wild all the time – Are there any tricks to help me stop picking my nose (I’m willing to try almost anything, like hypnotism or whatever)? I’ve tried forcing myself out of it with sheer will-power and wearing gloves during night, but they don’t help that much. I also cut my fingernails really short to discourage picking, but it doesn’t help, it just makes me dig more it seems (although I do get less bleeding with short nails). – Is this blockage that moves from one nostril to another "normal"? Is there anything I can do about it (sans surgery)? Somehow sleeping on my back doesn’t feel comfortable for me (I can breath better, but it doesn’t "feel" right). – I think I’m probably in "higher risk group" for sinusitis due to my constantly blocked nose, difficulties in breathing, sometimes blowing my nose too hard and habitually picking my nose. Is this true, or are these two symptoms (dry nose/picking and sinusitis) unrelated in their epidemology? – I loathe surgery (last option for me) and dislike antibiotics. Is irrigation something I can do while I have acute sinusitis? What treatments should I avoid when I have an acute infection going on? – What else should I be aware of? I tried to write down most things that I already know, so anything else is very welcome information for me. I know this is a lot of information to digest, but I couldn’t find the answers clearly in the FAQ or using Google (or maybe I just didn’t understand it). So please, any advice is very much welcomed by me. Thank you. Best regards, Pasi K. — Pasi Kein
Question:
quick question: I went to see the doctor earlier this week…the whole family has been sick with an upper respiratory infection. Kids have ear infections, wife and I are both stuffed up. a little yellow from my nose, but mostly thick white creamy junk on the left side of my nose…I’ve never had that before. The doctor suggested I sit it out, it’s most likely viral and will go away. I’ve been irragating with the grossan tip 2x or more per day. Is there any culture an ENT would do, or anything else to diagnose if I should be on antibiotics? Why is it thick & white…never had that before in my life. as a side note, my wife had a yeast infection two weeks ago. related? what to do…I need to get better. Thanks!
Response:
try here http://www.sinuswars.com/remedies.asp look at SinusWars7 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:11:29 -0500, "Sean" <t…@aol.com> wrote: >quick question: I went to see the doctor earlier this week…the whole >family has been sick with an upper respiratory infection. Kids have ear >infections, wife and I are both stuffed up. >a little yellow from my nose, but mostly thick white creamy junk on the left >side of my nose…I’ve never had that before. The doctor suggested I sit it >out, it’s most likely viral and will go away. >I’ve been irragating with the grossan tip 2x or more per day. >Is there any culture an ENT would do, or anything else to diagnose if I >should be on antibiotics? Why is it thick & white…never had that before >in my life. >as a side note, my wife had a yeast infection two weeks ago. related? >what to do…I need to get better. Thanks!
Response:
found out last company is in Africa so shipping is alot, but could use info some other place. Something to try to breakup thick mucus in morning drink first thing mix together 1/4 teaspoon cayenne (try to get organic, whole foods, wild oats) 1/2 lemon juice (that you just squeezed) 8 oz of distilled water – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:11:29 -0500, "Sean" <t…@aol.com> wrote: >quick question: I went to see the doctor earlier this week…the whole >family has been sick with an upper respiratory infection. Kids have ear >infections, wife and I are both stuffed up. >a little yellow from my nose, but mostly thick white creamy junk on the left >side of my nose…I’ve never had that before. The doctor suggested I sit it >out, it’s most likely viral and will go away. >I’ve been irragating with the grossan tip 2x or more per day. >Is there any culture an ENT would do, or anything else to diagnose if I >should be on antibiotics? Why is it thick & white…never had that before >in my life. >as a side note, my wife had a yeast infection two weeks ago. related? >what to do…I need to get better. Thanks!
Response:
Sean wrote: > quick question: I went to see the doctor earlier this week…the whole > family has been sick with an upper respiratory infection. Kids have ear > infections, wife and I are both stuffed up. > a little yellow from my nose, but mostly thick white creamy junk on the left > side of my nose…I’ve never had that before. The doctor suggested I sit it > out, it’s most likely viral and will go away. > I’ve been irragating with the grossan tip 2x or more per day. > Is there any culture an ENT would do, or anything else to diagnose if I > should be on antibiotics? Why is it thick & white…never had that before > in my life.
if you have a bad cold, be glad if that’s all you see coming out of your nose. I would hate to tell you what comes out of my nose when I have acute sinusitis. Colds are self-limiting, even if there is some sinus involvement, usually lasting 1-2 weeks. See if you get better this week. Be patient. If you are heading into your 3rd week and there is no improvement, or if it gets even worse, then you might have some kind of sinus problem. Your primary care physician can prescribe a first-line antibiotic in that case. Generally it’s not necessary to see an ENT unless you caught a bug that won’t go away even after several weeks, even with two courses of two different antibiotics. > as a side note, my wife had a yeast infection two weeks ago. related?
Probably not. Candida has been blamed for all kinds of things, but most of that is just quackery. However, if your wife gets to the point where she will need antibiotics, then you should tell your doctor that she has a history of yeast infections. Because some antibiotics are notorious for causing more yeast infections. — Steven L.
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Question:
Could someone please explain what it is and how itis different than any other bacterial infection?Are symptoms different?Is it a chronic thing that never really goes away despite medical treatment? Does Having had sinus surgery give one a predisposition to it more than typical bacteria? THX Russ
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Russell Thames wrote: > Could someone please explain what it is and how itis different than > any other bacterial infection?Are symptoms different?Is it a chronic > thing that never really goes away despite medical treatment? Does > Having had sinus surgery give one a predisposition to it more than > typical bacteria? THX Russ
Among the most common bacteria causing acute sinusitis include Streptococcus Pneumoniae, Moraxella Catarrhalis, Hemophilus Influenzae–and Staphylococcus Aureus. Staph is a VERY common bacterium. If you’ve ever had a boil or carbuncle on your skin, that’s staph. Staph is not an easy infection to eradicate from the sinuses. perhaps because it’s evolved to become resistant to various antibiotics. (Today, over 90% of staph strains are resistant to penicillin.) Bacterial sinus infections, unlike the common cold, aren’t always self-limiting. They can persist and persist and persist. That’s true for staph or other bugs. One of the most troublesome strains of staph is called MRSA. It’s resistant to many common antibiotics, and is frequently found in hospitals where it can cause nasty post-operative infections. There have been reports in the news that more and more sinus surgeries have resulted in post-operative MRSA infections of the sinuses. Particularly for patients who are immunocompromised. — Steven L.
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Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Stanton wrote: > Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message <news:3FF5EE64.5050405@earthlinkNOSPAM.net>… >>Charles Stanton wrote: >> From "Sinus Survival," a book by Dr. Robert Ivker: >>"….complaints such as ‘Doctor, I have had this "cold" for the past >>three weeks now’ (or the past month, or several months, or in a few >>cases, a year or more). These patients actually had sinusitis, and only >>after they had completed a course of antibiotics were they able to rid >>themselves of their ‘cold’." >>And that’s acute sinusitis–it can last for months. Chronic sinusitis >>can be permanent. >>I hate to be the bearer of such bad tidings, but a lot of us chronic >>sinusitis sufferers on this NG started out the same way–an ordinary >>cold that for some unknown reason triggered chronic trouble and we’ve >>never been completely cured since. That’s why that’s called "*chronic* >>sinusitis". >>IMO, the 5-day Zithromax course is just a marketing gimmick. To >>completely clear a sinus infection, you may need antibiotics for at >>least 3 weeks. >>Your nose is probably inflamed and sensitive from whatever it is that’s >>bothering you. It’s not surprising that indoors, >>Another antibiotic is worth a try. Try Levaquin. For a minimum of 3 weeks. >>Good luck. >>– Steven L. > Thanks very much for your post. When I think "infection" I > automatically think of discolored discharge, sore throat, loss of > appetite and all those gross infection type things. Is it possible > then to have an infection and not have discoloration of mucous, no > sore throat?
Are you absolutely sure that your post nasal drip is not discolored? It could be intermittent, it could be draining only at night when you’re asleep, etc. Note also that while acute sinusitis usually means bacterial infection, chronic sinusitis doesn’t have to involve a bacterial infection. It’s simply a long-lasting inflammation of the sinuses. I presume you’ve tried steroid nasal sprays to try to knock down that inflammation in your nose? > Thanks again Steven…I very much value your opinion. BTW…….I’ve > been reading about Bactroban and antibiotics in the irrigator? Do you > like this option better than oral antibiotics?
No. typically you irrigate with the antibiotic solution 2-3 times a day. But you can’t irrigate with plain saline at other times because that might wash the antibiotic out that you had irrigated with before. And I like to irrigate frequently when I need real symptomatic relief. — Steven L.
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Don Brady <dbr…@pobox.com> wrote in message <news:4o9evvcsmqvvpvufi0liliaivk8hlkrku8@4ax.com>… > On 3 Jan 2004 06:20:45 -0800, charles39…@yahoo.com (Charles Stanton) wrote: > >There are many who believe that long term use of prescription nasal > >sprays (Nasal steroids etc…) have a much worse affect on the mucosa > >than any sub-mucosal surgery. > Can you indicate any references to such a belief?
I can’t point you to any references but I do vividly recall a few ENT’s saying that long term Nasonex, Nasocort, Vancenase etc… can be drying to the nose. Very long term use every single day may cause nasal bleeding & dryness. They didn’t volunteer this info. to me….I remember asking it because I was concerned that I was on these steroids for years and years — I wanted to know any potential side affects. All these products indicate nasal bleeding as a potential side affect (although rare), so at the time I thought it made sense. This is probably a question for Dr. Grossan or another ENT on this board. So, is it OK to use nasal steroids every single day for years and years and years. I know some people who do this and I used to do it. Ask 10 different ENT’s and you’ll probably get a 50-50 split…..I’m just guessing but can only tell you based on my personal experience with my ENT visits.
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I’m having some reactions after taking abx for an infection, sometimes it takes a while to clear up the symptoms, I think. I got a culture that came up clear, maybe you could get one from your ent to see what’s happening in there. Otherwise it’s just guesswork and you may be taking strong abx unnecessarily. Since it usually happens inside in the heat, have you thought of using a humidifier? Drying in the nose can be a major source of irritation and thus the clear mucous draining. charles39…@yahoo.com (Charles Stanton) wrote: << I caught a bug in early October (yellow mucous, sore throat, cough etc….). 5 day treatment of Zithromax and the sore throat went away immediately but I don’t think I ever fully recovered. For the next 2 1/2 months my nose was extrememly dry, irritated and swollen. There would be times when I would feel almost 100% but then my nose would dry up again and become irritated and congested — my throat was sometimes scratchy etc… I never thought I needed antibiotics again because the discharge was clear and when ENT’s looked in my nose all of them said that I should just rinse with saline and keep it moist — in other words it doesn’t look that bad so just wait it out. I irrigate daily and use Breathe-Ease gel often during the day. Is it possible that there is still some type of bacterial infection and antibiotics may be needed. Is it possible for a bug to hang on this long — also, why are there times when I feel almost 100% but then I get slammed again from hour to hour. Here are my current symptoms (going on for a few months) 1- Dry irritated nose 2- Post nasal drip 3- When my nose is not feeling dry it feels swollen and congested. I blow my nose often during the day — the discharge is completely clear (except maybe slightly yellow first thing in the AM). 4- It’s often worse when I’m inside in the heat. Feels better when I’m outside in the cold. 5- If inside for extended periods of time, I start to feel almost dizzy and tired and have to lay down. My sinuses are 100% clear. There is no swelling, no inflamation of any kind as indicated by my CT Scan. This is 100% in my annoying nose. Most all the posts here show antibiotics for sinusitis but what if my sinuses are clear —- How about the best antibiotic based on my post here? Levaquin, Z-Pak, Ceftin etc…. My doctor is not going to have a clue so I’d rather just go to him with a recommendation for an antibiotic. Thanks so much. -Charles>><BR><BR> Sue M.
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On 3 Jan 2004 06:20:45 -0800, charles39…@yahoo.com (Charles Stanton) wrote: >There are many who believe that long term use of prescription nasal >sprays (Nasal steroids etc…) have a much worse affect on the mucosa >than any sub-mucosal surgery.
Can you indicate any references to such a belief?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -turbina…@hotmail.com (turbinates) wrote in message <news:d52a83ce.0401021520.1a9ed843@posting.google.com>… > Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message <news:3FF5EE64.5050405@earthlinkNOSPAM.net>… >> "…Until I saw another (after many 5-min consutations with others) > local ENT in Jersey. I went into his office complaining of chronic > sinusitis and every time I used the word sinusitis he got aggravated. > "stop saying sinusitis — just tell me your symtoms". After a review > of my CT scan and my symtoms (which presented no problems under the > eyes, near the jaw) he suggested that not only do I not have sinusitis > but perhaps I never had sinusitis in the past! I had a slightly > deviated septum and enlarged turbinates (actually huge turbinates). > He prescribed "Astelin" and sent me on my way. I don’t know if I was > just getting better on my own or if the "Astelin" proved a miracle > drug but I was then symptom free for 6 months." > … > Looking back into Charles Stanton previous posts, the deviated septum > and hypertrophy turbinate happened to be there which i believe was > masking the primary cause/s of his problem which were overlooked by > doctors. > It could have been acid leakage from the stomache which irritated his > nasal membrance, or it could have been other irritants (from > food/drink or in the air) which should had been agrressively > investigated. > The surgery that he underwent was a stab in the dark, but he had it > done becuase doctors convinced him that it would do no harm! > After surgery he ’s still suffering from the same symptoms more or > less with the additional dryness and other problems due the > scarred/reduced mucosa system and a weaken septum.
Please remember that my symptoms are definitely "less severe" since the turbinate surgery. Prior to the surgery I would have intense pain in the center of my forehead and every time I went to tie my shoes I felt like I was going to pass out because I got so lightheaded bending over. In addition, the post nasal drip was so terrible that my cough would last for months and my stomach became very upset. After surgery I no longer have pressure in the center of my forehead & the PND is still present but much less severe. I had surgery in Dec 2002 and was 100% clear until Oct. 2004 (thought I was cured for good). I haven’t gone this long without a flare up in 12 years. Over the past several years, I saw about 4 allergists in the area and had all types of blood tests, allergy test etc… and I am allergic to nothing. My symptoms persisted for years regardless of where I lived (4 different locations). The turbinate reduction was sub-mucosal, the membrane was never touched. The septoplasty was probably not necessary…sometimes I regret throwing this in but I’m not convinced that this had any affect either way. There are many who believe that long term use of prescription nasal sprays (Nasal steroids etc…) have a much worse affect on the mucosa than any sub-mucosal surgery. So in summary, I’m not ready to say that the surgery was a mistake. If I had to do it all over again, I really don’t know what I would do. There were a few ENT’s who said not to bother with the surgery — they just wanted to treat it with long term anti-biotics, nasal sprays, etc… What is the lesser of 2 evils?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message <news:3FF5EE64.5050405@earthlinkNOSPAM.net>… > Charles Stanton wrote: > From "Sinus Survival," a book by Dr. Robert Ivker: > "….complaints such as ‘Doctor, I have had this "cold" for the past > three weeks now’ (or the past month, or several months, or in a few > cases, a year or more). These patients actually had sinusitis, and only > after they had completed a course of antibiotics were they able to rid > themselves of their ‘cold’." > And that’s acute sinusitis–it can last for months. Chronic sinusitis > can be permanent. > I hate to be the bearer of such bad tidings, but a lot of us chronic > sinusitis sufferers on this NG started out the same way–an ordinary > cold that for some unknown reason triggered chronic trouble and we’ve > never been completely cured since. That’s why that’s called "*chronic* > sinusitis". > IMO, the 5-day Zithromax course is just a marketing gimmick. To > completely clear a sinus infection, you may need antibiotics for at > least 3 weeks. > Your nose is probably inflamed and sensitive from whatever it is that’s > bothering you. It’s not surprising that indoors, > Another antibiotic is worth a try. Try Levaquin. For a minimum of 3 weeks. > Good luck. > — Steven L.
Thanks very much for your post. When I think "infection" I automatically think of discolored discharge, sore throat, loss of appetite and all those gross infection type things. Is it possible then to have an infection and not have discoloration of mucous, no sore throat? My complaint is 100% in my nose. It just feels like crap. It is dry & irritated most of the day. Then it gets clogged and stuffy. Then it gets dry, then it feels OK…then it gets weird again. Does this sound like it could possible be a low grade infection just hanging around in my nose? Am I looking at this all wrong? I’ve been treating my nose as the problem. Since I feel dry and crappy I’m thinking it must just be a problem with my nose. Because I am over the symptoms of sore throat and discolored discharge, I’m assuming that the infection is gone. Maybe not. Thanks again Steven…I very much value your opinion. BTW…….I’ve been reading about Bactroban and antibiotics in the irrigator? Do you like this option better than oral antibiotics? Regards -Charles
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> wrote in message <news:3FF5EE64.5050405@earthlinkNOSPAM.net>… > Charles Stanton wrote: > > I caught a bug in early October (yellow mucous, sore throat, cough > > etc….). 5 day treatment of Zithromax and the sore throat went away > > immediately but I don’t think I ever fully recovered. For the next 2 > > 1/2 months my nose was extrememly dry, irritated and swollen. There > > would be times when I would feel almost 100% but then my nose would > > dry up again and become irritated and congested — my throat was > > sometimes scratchy etc… > > I never thought I needed antibiotics again because the discharge was > > clear and when ENT’s looked in my nose all of them said that I should > > just rinse with saline and keep it moist — in other words it doesn’t > > look that bad so just wait it out. I irrigate daily and use > > Breathe-Ease gel often during the day. > > Is it possible that there is still some type of bacterial infection > > and antibiotics may be needed. Is it possible for a bug to hang on > > this long — also, why are there times when I feel almost 100% but > > then I get slammed again from hour to hour. Here are my current > > symptoms (going on for a few months) > > 1- Dry irritated nose > > 2- Post nasal drip > > 3- When my nose is not feeling dry it feels swollen and congested. I > > blow my nose often during the day — the discharge is completely > > clear (except maybe slightly yellow first thing in the AM). > > 4- It’s often worse when I’m inside in the heat. Feels better when > > I’m outside in the cold. > > 5- If inside for extended periods of time, I start to feel almost > > dizzy and tired and have to lay down. > > My sinuses are 100% clear. There is no swelling, no inflamation of > > any kind as indicated by my CT Scan. This is 100% in my annoying > > nose. > > Most all the posts here show antibiotics for sinusitis but what if my > > sinuses are clear —- > > How about the best antibiotic based on my post here? Levaquin, Z-Pak, > > Ceftin etc…. My doctor is not going to have a clue so I’d rather > > just go to him with a recommendation for an antibiotic. > From "Sinus Survival," a book by Dr. Robert Ivker: > "….complaints such as ‘Doctor, I have had this "cold" for the past > three weeks now’ (or the past month, or several months, or in a few > cases, a year or more). These patients actually had sinusitis, and only > after they had completed a course of antibiotics were they able to rid > themselves of their ‘cold’." > And that’s acute sinusitis–it can last for months. Chronic sinusitis > can be permanent. > I hate to be the bearer of such bad tidings, but a lot of us chronic > sinusitis sufferers on this NG started out the same way–an ordinary > cold that for some unknown reason triggered chronic trouble and we’ve > never been completely cured since. That’s why that’s called "*chronic* > sinusitis". > IMO, the 5-day Zithromax course is just a marketing gimmick. To > completely clear a sinus infection, you may need antibiotics for at > least 3 weeks. > Your nose is probably inflamed and sensitive from whatever it is that’s > bothering you. It’s not surprising that indoors, > Another antibiotic is worth a try. Try Levaquin. For a minimum of 3 weeks. > Good luck. > — Steven L.
"…Until I saw another (after many 5-min consutations with others) local ENT in Jersey. I went into his office complaining of chronic sinusitis and every time I used the word sinusitis he got aggravated. "stop saying sinusitis — just tell me your symtoms". After a review of my CT scan and my symtoms (which presented no problems under the eyes, near the jaw) he suggested that not only do I not have sinusitis but perhaps I never had sinusitis in the past! I had a slightly deviated septum and enlarged turbinates (actually huge turbinates). He prescribed "Astelin" and sent me on my way. I don’t know if I was just getting better on my own or if the "Astelin" proved a miracle drug but I was then symptom free for 6 months." … Looking back into Charles Stanton previous posts, the deviated septum and hypertrophy turbinate happened to be there which i believe was masking the primary cause/s of his problem which were overlooked by doctors. It could have been acid leakage from the stomache which irritated his nasal membrance, or it could have been other irritants (from food/drink or in the air) which should had been agrressively investigated. The surgery that he underwent was a stab in the dark, but he had it done becuase doctors convinced him that it would do no harm! After surgery he ’s still suffering from the same symptoms more or less with the additional dryness and other problems due the scarred/reduced mucosa system and a weaken septum.
Response:
I caught a bug in early October (yellow mucous, sore throat, cough etc….). 5 day treatment of Zithromax and the sore throat went away immediately but I don’t think I ever fully recovered. For the next 2 1/2 months my nose was extrememly dry, irritated and swollen. There would be times when I would feel almost 100% but then my nose would dry up again and become irritated and congested — my throat was sometimes scratchy etc… I never thought I needed antibiotics again because the discharge was clear and when ENT’s looked in my nose all of them said that I should just rinse with saline and keep it moist — in other words it doesn’t look that bad so just wait it out. I irrigate daily and use Breathe-Ease gel often during the day. Is it possible that there is still some type of bacterial infection and antibiotics may be needed. Is it possible for a bug to hang on this long — also, why are there times when I feel almost 100% but then I get slammed again from hour to hour. Here are my current symptoms (going on for a few months) 1- Dry irritated nose 2- Post nasal drip 3- When my nose is not feeling dry it feels swollen and congested. I blow my nose often during the day — the discharge is completely clear (except maybe slightly yellow first thing in the AM). 4- It’s often worse when I’m inside in the heat. Feels better when I’m outside in the cold. 5- If inside for extended periods of time, I start to feel almost dizzy and tired and have to lay down. My sinuses are 100% clear. There is no swelling, no inflamation of any kind as indicated by my CT Scan. This is 100% in my annoying nose. Most all the posts here show antibiotics for sinusitis but what if my sinuses are clear —- How about the best antibiotic based on my post here? Levaquin, Z-Pak, Ceftin etc…. My doctor is not going to have a clue so I’d rather just go to him with a recommendation for an antibiotic. Thanks so much. -Charles
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Charles Stanton wrote: > I caught a bug in early October (yellow mucous, sore throat, cough > etc….). 5 day treatment of Zithromax and the sore throat went away > immediately but I don’t think I ever fully recovered. For the next 2 > 1/2 months my nose was extrememly dry, irritated and swollen. There > would be times when I would feel almost 100% but then my nose would > dry up again and become irritated and congested — my throat was > sometimes scratchy etc… > I never thought I needed antibiotics again because the discharge was > clear and when ENT’s looked in my nose all of them said that I should > just rinse with saline and keep it moist — in other words it doesn’t > look that bad so just wait it out. I irrigate daily and use > Breathe-Ease gel often during the day. > Is it possible that there is still some type of bacterial infection > and antibiotics may be needed. Is it possible for a bug to hang on > this long — also, why are there times when I feel almost 100% but > then I get slammed again from hour to hour. Here are my current > symptoms (going on for a few months) > 1- Dry irritated nose > 2- Post nasal drip > 3- When my nose is not feeling dry it feels swollen and congested. I > blow my nose often during the day — the discharge is completely > clear (except maybe slightly yellow first thing in the AM). > 4- It’s often worse when I’m inside in the heat. Feels better when > I’m outside in the cold. > 5- If inside for extended periods of time, I start to feel almost > dizzy and tired and have to lay down. > My sinuses are 100% clear. There is no swelling, no inflamation of > any kind as indicated by my CT Scan. This is 100% in my annoying > nose. > Most all the posts here show antibiotics for sinusitis but what if my > sinuses are clear —- > How about the best antibiotic based on my post here? Levaquin, Z-Pak, > Ceftin etc…. My doctor is not going to have a clue so I’d rather > just go to him with a recommendation for an antibiotic.
From "Sinus Survival," a book by Dr. Robert Ivker: "….complaints such as ‘Doctor, I have had this "cold" for the past three weeks now’ (or the past month, or several months, or in a few cases, a year or more). These patients actually had sinusitis, and only after they had completed a course of antibiotics were they able to rid themselves of their ‘cold’." And that’s acute sinusitis–it can last for months. Chronic sinusitis can be permanent. I hate to be the bearer of such bad tidings, but a lot of us chronic sinusitis sufferers on this NG started out the same way–an ordinary cold that for some unknown reason triggered chronic trouble and we’ve never been completely cured since. That’s why that’s called "*chronic* sinusitis". IMO, the 5-day Zithromax course is just a marketing gimmick. To completely clear a sinus infection, you may need antibiotics for at least 3 weeks. Your nose is probably inflamed and sensitive from whatever it is that’s bothering you. It’s not surprising that indoors, Another antibiotic is worth a try. Try Levaquin. For a minimum of 3 weeks. Good luck. — Steven L.
Response:
Question:
"Janine Maves" <jma…@earthlink.net> schrieb: >Okay, here’s a weird one for you irrigation afficionados: >I’ve never experienced an actual loss of smell with chronic sinusitis but >for some reason each time I follow Can Do’s peroxide irrigation technique, I >get the strongest whiff of potting soil. Any ideas what this is about?
Hydrogen Peroxide apparently usually is bottled together with a small amount of sulfuric acid, I could imagine that could be the source of the smell Bye, Sascha
Response:
Hi Janine… I had an upper molar root canaled 10 years ago, due to pain. A year or so later, I went back to the dentist complaining of more pain from the same tooth. He took an X-ray, but said it looked fine. ..I continued to have pain, so he cut the gum up to the root tip, and put a couple of fillings in the end. …I found out 4 years ago, after I started irrigating, that the sore tooth was simply referred pain from my sinuses. …I haven’t had the pain since. …Jon
Response:
> Okay, here’s a weird one for you irrigation afficionados: > I’ve never experienced an actual loss of smell with chronic sinusitis but > for some reason each time I follow Can Do’s peroxide irrigation technique, I > get the strongest whiff of potting soil. Any ideas what this is about?
I get the same exact smell. I have no idea what it is but I’m glad you have it to so I don’t have to worry about my entire house smelling like potting soil 
Tony
Response:
Ok then If you use about 2 ounces I know its not working for me. I use a small rubber ear bulb. It holds 2 ounces and I use only 1/5 of that. Its like a put a teaspoon of solution in each nose opening and thats all that will go in then it over flows. then I wait 3 minutes get the sneezing sting, wait, wiggle my face ect. wait. Try a few more drops. I tryed the shower up side down method. same thing. I guess the catscan is right. the sinus is full of polips and the small tube is clogged. Right now my upper molars are in toothache pain mode again. Denist said there is no cavity or problems. I just dont want sinus sergery. I just want to breeze through my nose again. But I dont want a 3 in one sergery fix it all at once. I feel it may be overkill. Why cant I just get the new turbinate swelling reduction in office (high frquency) thing done and see if that works????? Or is the small tube just going to stay blocked and sinus infections still happen. I had 6 weeks of heaven when I did the daily irrigation and added peroxide every other week. Then I went on vacation, stayed at a shit hotel that smelled (last room, on a Holiday) Now my sinuses are screwed again. I tested positive for dustmites and mold. Had the house tested and they were high. Had the mold and dustmites problem fixed but the dustmites can return if the humidity goes up. so I keep the humidity in the bedroom at 35%. And the house at 30%. ifFixed the bedroom with covers for mattress pillows, carpet ect. Worked fantastic for 6 weeks. But the doctor says the septum is crooked. (catscan I seen). Polips are to many and large. and turbinates are always swelled. God I wish I knew the answer. I dont trust any Doctors anymore. If you act dumb they take advantage of you. If you tell them my maxillary sinuses are bad they wonder why you know so much. ( I knew more than the 4 nurses) Then you get a cat scan and xray 2 different places and they tell you the maxillary sinuses are bad. ( I knew that)They never give real details. Because of the fast pace, bullshit sameold crap that we have to live with attitude,. I deal with this almost everywhere. But now I go to stores that treat me like a person, A bank where Im not a number and if I pay more for that service thats fine. But why should doctors be any different. Damn give us respect. Thats all it comes down to. If you are low mid or upper income, Respect. I run a business, Im not perfect but Im honest and I respect all of my customers. I dont care if they spend a dollar or a thousand. I have spent a hour or more on a person and they say I must buy something for your time. I say no way. They always come back again and that meens they respect me and I did my job. And you will have a friend for life. Ok Im done, next.. Be good .. Have a good Christmas. Thanks for listening
Response:
Okay, here’s a weird one for you irrigation afficionados: I’ve never experienced an actual loss of smell with chronic sinusitis but for some reason each time I follow Can Do’s peroxide irrigation technique, I get the strongest whiff of potting soil. Any ideas what this is about? BTW, I’ve found I have better luck doing this if I lay on my back on my bed with my head hanging off.
Response:
Janine, I also experience a weird smell from the peroxide/baking soda combination. It stays with me for most of the day. Are you able to flood your sinuses? I have never done it on my back. I might do one just to test that position. Is there a lot of foam? Any blood in the discharge? Do you feel better or worse after a sinus flooding? How many have you done, and when did you start? Hope you don’t mind the questions. I am really hoping that it really helps your sinus disease and makes you feel great. CanDo. "Janine Maves" <jma…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:i_KFb.9589$wL6.6012@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay, here’s a weird one for you irrigation afficionados: > I’ve never experienced an actual loss of smell with chronic sinusitis but > for some reason each time I follow Can Do’s peroxide irrigation technique, I > get the strongest whiff of potting soil. Any ideas what this is about? > BTW, I’ve found I have better luck doing this if I lay on my back on my bed > with my head hanging off.
Response:
Oh, I forgot. Janine, That took a lot of courage and imagination on your part, especially finding your own way of doing the "upside down" flooding. Congratulations on overcoming the obstacles and doing it your way! Regards, CanDo.
Response:
Hi, I must be doing the can do wrong. How many ounces or mm. should go in? I fill up each side but I can not seem to get it to go in the sinus. Unless it is and I cant feel it. Also my cat scan shows the left side filled with something but the doc was unsure what. Cat scan showed right side ok frontal sinuses a little bad he said. My problem is maxillary with upper teeth pain that sometimes is very bad. So what happens if the maxillary fills with the solution and does not exit? Is that possible. I did do the can do about 7 weeks ago and it worked great but I just lay on my back and hang over the bed. Little foam. no blood. I guess I just need to know the quanity of solution (without spillage) that it takes to know if the sinuses are saturated. Otherwise I think Im just filling the nose only…. Thank you, Please let me know.
Response:
=== > Jimmy, you wrote: "Hi, I must be doing the can do wrong. How many ounces or mm. should go in? I fill up each side but I can not seem to get it to go in the sinus. Unless it is and I cant feel it." <=== When I do the "upside down" flooding, I really can’t feel the liquid in my sinuses, after it is in there. The total fluid I use for one flooding is about 55ml or about 2 liquid ounces. ===> You also wrote: "So what happens if the maxillary fills with the
solution and does not exit? Is that possible." <=== If liquid goes in, I don’t understand why it would not be able come out. If I had some liquid trapped in my sinuses I would try different positions of my head until I found one where it would drain out. It’s all a matter of gravity, and having the opening in the right position. ===> You also wrote: "I did do the can do about 7 weeks ago and it worked
great but I just lay on my back and hang over the bed. Little foam. no blood. I guess I just need to know the quanity of solution (without spillage) that it takes to know if the sinuses are saturated. Otherwise I think Im just filling the nose only…. Thank you, Please let me know. " <=== I’ve used the "upside down" flooding process to control and heal my sinus disease for well over two years, successfully. My sinuses feel great every day. They are wide open, relaxed, without any discomfort at all 24 hours per day, each and every day. Mind you, this came after over thirty years of sinus disease, sinus surgery, and countless antibiotics. My sinuses were a wreck! Now they are not. I have never done the flooding in any other position than with the top of my bald head fully down on the floor of my shower. My elbows are bent, and my forearms are down on the shower floor. My head is between my forearms, near the wrists. I don’t know if this position gets the anti-infective fluid into all sinus cavities, but I feel that it gives me the best chance to get the fluid into the most sinus areas, where it can fight the infection. I hope that this helps. Best of the holidays to you!
Response:
Janine Maves wrote: > Okay, here’s a weird one for you irrigation afficionados: > I’ve never experienced an actual loss of smell with chronic sinusitis but > for some reason each time I follow Can Do’s peroxide irrigation technique, I > get the strongest whiff of potting soil. Any ideas what this is about?
When I get a "decay" smell in my sinuses, it’s a sure sign of an acute sinus infection. the smell that I get is that of rotting meat. — Steven L.
Response:
I fill a plastic bottle with about three ounces of warm filtered water, a pinch of sea salt, pinch of baking powder and a few drops of peroxide. I don’t use all of it. It also seemed that I only filled my nose the first time I tried it, but it seems to be that I’m making a little more "progress" each day I repeat the irrigation. (As to drainage, I would think having trace amounts of peroxide solution trapped in a sinus cavity would be less harmful than pus in the long run.) My CT scan also showed left maxillary side filled with infection . . . in fact I always wondered if I needed all the dental work I had on the upper left side, as I’ve continued to have pain up there even after two root canals. I wonder if the oral surgeon would’ve just moved on down, doing one tooth every few months if I’d let her? "Jim Jam" <jimmy14…@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:18872-3FE78AD0-442@storefull-2212.public.lawson.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, I must be doing the can do wrong. How many ounces or mm. should go > in? I fill up each side but I can not seem to get it to go in the sinus. > Unless it is and I cant feel it. Also my cat scan shows the left side > filled with something but the doc was unsure what. Cat scan showed right > side ok frontal sinuses a little bad he said. My problem is maxillary > with upper teeth pain that sometimes is very bad. So what happens if the > maxillary fills with the solution and does not exit? Is that possible. I > did do the can do about 7 weeks ago and it worked great but I just lay > on my back and hang over the bed. Little foam. no blood. I guess I just > need to know the quanity of solution (without spillage) that it takes to > know if the sinuses are saturated. Otherwise I think Im just filling the > nose only…. Thank you, Please let me know.
Response:
Question:
why does having had root canal rule out the possibility of gum and tooth as a symptomatic reaction to condition? Thanks, Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Johnny1…@webtv.net wrote: > Hello… I am currently on the irrigation regimen and an antibiotic ( > Co- Trimoxazole) for my sinus problems……I’ve got 2 Questions: > I don’t have pain in my sinus right now, as in an acute attach; > however, my second molar from the back, on top, hurts if I tap it. (I > went to the dentist and found the tooth had been previously > root-canaled….so that ruled that out) I have had pressure in the roof > of my mouth at times extending from this particular tooth across the > roof. Could anyone tell me, what sinus could be involved for this area > ? > Further…During irrigation through the nostril for this particular > side, I notice, at times, an odd smell….I don’t know if it’s , > perhaps, an infection type smell ?? I have been irrigating for over a > week and am still flushing out some blood and yellow matter ….although > not consistently when this particular odour is noticed. Has anyone else > had this ? …I was thinking, perhaps it’s just a case where the salt > water comes in better contact with my smell sensors ?? > Thanks for any help. > Regards……Jon
Response:
Hello… I am currently on the irrigation regimen and an antibiotic ( Co- Trimoxazole) for my sinus problems……I’ve got 2 Questions: I don’t have pain in my sinus right now, as in an acute attach; however, my second molar from the back, on top, hurts if I tap it. (I went to the dentist and found the tooth had been previously root-canaled….so that ruled that out) I have had pressure in the roof of my mouth at times extending from this particular tooth across the roof. Could anyone tell me, what sinus could be involved for this area ? Further…During irrigation through the nostril for this particular side, I notice, at times, an odd smell….I don’t know if it’s , perhaps, an infection type smell ?? I have been irrigating for over a week and am still flushing out some blood and yellow matter ….although not consistently when this particular odour is noticed. Has anyone else had this ? …I was thinking, perhaps it’s just a case where the salt water comes in better contact with my smell sensors ?? Thanks for any help. Regards……Jon
Response:
<Johnny1…@webtv.net> wrote in > I don’t have pain in my sinus right now, as in an acute attach; > however, my second molar from the back, on top, hurts if I tap it. (I > went to the dentist and found the tooth had been previously > root-canaled….so that ruled that out) I have had pressure in the roof > of my mouth at times extending from this particular tooth across the > roof. Could anyone tell me, what sinus could be involved for this area
Just because the tooth had a root canal doesn’t mean it can’t be infected again. Root canals can fail. I know that from experience. It’s possible for infection to spread from an upper tooth to the sinuses. I would have an endodontist check it out.
Response:
Hi Mike…..I should add, The dentist x-rayed and found no problems with the tooth. Additionally, I’ve had many abcessed teeth and know the usual symptons quite well. I did have acute sinusitis on that side below my eye (on the outer cheek) 15 years ago. It’s funny…. I’ve had root canals done, gum surgery(due to a suspected infection at the root of the root-canaled tooth….turned out neg.), and even a couple of implants put in, where the tooth was just in front of the tooth that is now bothering me………Has me wondering now, if what I and my dentist thought was tooth problems, was in fact my sinus acting up…. Regards….Jon
Response:
I had a sort of a salty chemical small for maybe the first three weeks. It has gone away since but that may be due to the fact that I lowered the salt content slightle. Are you using canning salt (i.e. with no additives)? Table salt has iodine and other undesirable stuff. <Johnny1…@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14916-38804855-1@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net… …> Further…During irrigation through the nostril for this particular – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> side, I notice, at times, an odd smell….I don’t know if it’s , > perhaps, an infection type smell ?? I have been irrigating for over a > week and am still flushing out some blood and yellow matter ….although > not consistently when this particular odour is noticed. Has anyone else > had this ? …I was thinking, perhaps it’s just a case where the salt > water comes in better contact with my smell sensors ??
Response:
Fatigue can have 101 causes including taking an antibiotic. Pulsatile irrigation ( Hydro Pulse ) does enter the sinuses. But that is not the primary function . It is to restore the cilia so that the cilia will remove the sinus material. Yes, you need to avoid romance for 20 minutes after pulsatile irrigation. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/
Response:
On Wed, 7 May 2003 16:00:16 -0400, "Preesi" <pre…@comcast.net> wrote: >Well, I bent over to pick something up and water drizzled out of my nose >onto the carpet! >This was 1 hour after Id irrigated! So Im making sure to tip over and let >the rest come out so its not stagnating!
Read the FAQ on the "whale blow". Not something you want to do regularly, but for those occasions when you don’t want to drip all over everything in public ….
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I’ve found if I just bend over and turn my head in different directions after the irrigation it all drains out. I think it can go into the maxillaries alongside the nose and needs to get "tipped over" to drain them out. Dr G says whale blow is bad for the ears. Mike Murray mikemur…@despammed.com wrote:
<< On Wed, 7 May 2003 16:00:16 -0400, "Preesi" <pre…@comcast.net> wrote: >Well, I bent over to pick something up and water drizzled out of my nose >onto the carpet! >This was 1 hour after Id irrigated! So Im making sure to tip over and let >the rest come out so its not stagnating!
Read the FAQ on the "whale blow". Not something you want to do regularly, but for those occasions when you don’t want to drip all over everything in public ….<< Sue M.
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On 08 May 2003 01:51:53 GMT, suemil…@aol.comnospam (Sue milham) wrote: >I’ve found if I just bend over and turn my head in different directions after >the irrigation it all drains out. I think it can go into the maxillaries >alongside the nose and needs to get "tipped over" to drain them out. Dr G says >whale blow is bad for the ears.
Yes, that’s essentially what I do — exhaling lightly through the nose while doing it — I think that’s what they call the "whale blow" — my understanding is it’s bad if you blow too hard, and Dr. G mentions the saline is therapeutic anyhow, so why go to all that effort to get rid of it? But there are *those* times when you really want to, for social reasons. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Mike Murray mikemur…@despammed.com wrote: ><< On Wed, 7 May 2003 16:00:16 -0400, "Preesi" <pre…@comcast.net> >wrote: >>Well, I bent over to pick something up and water drizzled out of my nose >>onto the carpet! >>This was 1 hour after Id irrigated! So Im making sure to tip over and let >>the rest come out so its not stagnating! >Read the FAQ on the "whale blow". Not something you want to do >regularly, but for those occasions when you don’t want to drip all >over everything in public ….<< >Sue M.
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On Wed, 7 May 2003 11:16:40 -0400, "Preesi" <pre…@comcast.net> wrote: >1// Today Im wide open, yet I feel super tired.. Does the fatigue happen >even when you have no sinus symptoms?
The fatigue can last a long time, and if you try to ignore it by coming back too soon, can lead to a relapse. Make sure you get plenty of sleep, even after the overt symptoms have vanished. >2// Does irrigation actually go into the sinuses themselves, or just wash >away the mucus in the "hallway" of the nose?
It can do either. My experience is that the better my sinus health, the more solution seems to be temporarily retained and drains out later (usually within a few minutes). I’m assuming much it is actually in the sinuses, but, obviously, it’s hard to know.
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> >1// Today Im wide open, yet I feel super tired.. Does the fatigue happen > >even when you have no sinus symptoms? > The fatigue can last a long time, and if you try to ignore it by > coming back too soon, can lead to a relapse. Make sure you get plenty > of sleep, even after the overt symptoms have vanished.
Okay, sound advice! > >2// Does irrigation actually go into the sinuses themselves, or just wash > >away the mucus in the "hallway" of the nose? > It can do either. My experience is that the better my sinus health, > the more solution seems to be temporarily retained and drains out > later (usually within a few minutes). I’m assuming much it is > actually in the sinuses, but, obviously, it’s hard to know.
Well, I bent over to pick something up and water drizzled out of my nose onto the carpet! This was 1 hour after Id irrigated! So Im making sure to tip over and let the rest come out so its not stagnating! I also wore a mask to the grocery store yesterday. I walked around the supermarket with a mask on…People clutched their children and recoiled at my presence…I started getting a complex….and profusely explained to them "IM NOT CONTAGIOUS!, IM NOT, IM NOT, IM NOT!!!" LMAO! Im the least self conscious person I know! Ill wear that mask for a year if it means NO sinus/ear infections! — My Personal Site http://mywebpages.comcast.net/preesi/Begin.html (Hear me Bitch, Moan and Complain, Cook One of My Recipes, Play One of My Games, Peruse My Links THEN, Sign My Guestbook Dagnammit! LOL) What Is Really Eating You? http://mywebpages.comcast.net/preesi/BDA.htm (My Before, During and After Pics.) Where I Go For Fun and Friendship: http://www.paltalk.com (Find Flirts R Us! I’m usually there!)
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Im sure no one will answer me but here goes. 1// Today Im wide open, yet I feel super tired.. Does the fatigue happen even when you have no sinus symptoms? 2// Does irrigation actually go into the sinuses themselves, or just wash away the mucus in the "hallway" of the nose? I bent forward the other day and all this water came out! — My Personal Site http://mywebpages.comcast.net/preesi/Begin.html (Hear me Bitch, Moan and Complain, Cook One of My Recipes, Play One of My Games, Peruse My Links THEN, Sign My Guestbook Dagnammit! LOL) Where I Go For Fun and Friendship: http://www.paltalk.com (Find Flirts R Us! I’m usually there!)
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Question:
Joy wrote: > Funny thing. Today I was looking for something about sinus problems and > found this: > http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/comorbid.html
Thank you for posting this Joy – who knows – i am on a diet now and for some unknown reasons, i have improved, gastro wise, and a little but not so much with the sinusitis; i worry it may be my kidneys going as i take lithium. I have bubbles – my doctor says it is nothing. Squiggles
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I know when my brother-in-law was on lithium, they required a blood test now and then for some reason. I just didn’t learn that much about it. Sorry. "SqUiGgLeS" <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3E022BDE.1AE879E7@sympatico.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Joy wrote: > > Funny thing. Today I was looking for something about sinus problems and > > found this: > > http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/comorbid.html > Thank you for posting this Joy – who knows – i am on > a diet now and for some unknown reasons, i have improved, > gastro wise, and a little but not so much with the sinusitis; > i worry it may be my kidneys going as i take lithium. I have > bubbles – my doctor says it is nothing. > Squiggles
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sorry to hear about all the problems, i have been out of work for the past week with acute sinusitis myself and they have me doped up on amoxicillin and a changing diet of tylenol 3 with codeine and vicodin.. fun fun fun i feel like crap but oh well, maybe i will get better.. just need the facial pain and pressure to go and i will be straight — sent by the lost poet battle creek michigan usa http://kryptix.deep-ice.com
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -nos…@nospam.com wrote: > On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 15:28:14 -0500, in alt.support.sinusitis you wrote: > >Joy wrote: > >> Funny thing. Today I was looking for something about sinus problems and > >> found this: > >> http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/comorbid.html > >Thank you for posting this Joy – who knows – i am on > >a diet now and for some unknown reasons, i have improved, > >gastro wise, and a little but not so much with the sinusitis; > >i worry it may be my kidneys going as i take lithium. I have > >bubbles – my doctor says it is nothing. > >Squiggles > Does flonase make you manic?
What is "flonase"? Squiggles
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On Sat, 21 Dec 2002 22:51:35 -0500, SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote: >What is "flonase"? >Squiggles
A commonly-used presciption nasal steroid spray. But it won’t make you manic.
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Don Brady wrote: > On Sat, 21 Dec 2002 22:51:35 -0500, SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote: > >What is "flonase"? > >Squiggles > A commonly-used presciption nasal steroid spray. > But it won’t make you manic.
Yes, i tried something like that with a warning, and only noticed the warning when i got tachycardia — but i am on Synthroid and that was the interaction warning. I switched to just saline solution. Squiggles
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I have both problems. Assumed that the gastro was started by taking lots of antibiotic, as each time I started a new antibiotic I would up on a 911 in ER and was admitted to the hospital. I’ve been in the ER 5 times in the past year, always with the same problem. My internist got a gastro dr. for me and I believe that he has run every test that he knows. The medication that he (gastro) has me on now has improved things, but the sinus infection is a mess and I’m afraid to try any antibiotic. Cedax is the only thing that I can take without triggering gastro symptoms, and the Cedax no longer gets rid of the sinus problem…..Mary Rae "SqUiGgLeS" <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3DF8F4A4.E74A4376@sympatico.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am battling two problems now, and i don’t know if it is > my drugs, or if there is a virus or fungus infection or > if there is a brain connection or what; i have almost daily > gastro problems ( won’t go into it in depth ) and what i > *think* is sinusitis; the fact that both started when > i withdrew from a drug, may be indicative or just coincidental; > but if any of you people have sinusitis (with a tongue coating) > and gastro, please let me know; i don’t think my doctor knows > what the problem is; > Squiggles > — > "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will > pick himself up and carry on." > – Sir Winston Churchill
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GI upset from antibiotics is quite common. Might help to take yogurt or refrigerated lactobacillus tablets to restore the normal GI flora. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm
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I am battling two problems now, and i don’t know if it is my drugs, or if there is a virus or fungus infection or if there is a brain connection or what; i have almost daily gastro problems ( won’t go into it in depth ) and what i *think* is sinusitis; the fact that both started when i withdrew from a drug, may be indicative or just coincidental; but if any of you people have sinusitis (with a tongue coating) and gastro, please let me know; i don’t think my doctor knows what the problem is; Squiggles — "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on." – Sir Winston Churchill
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On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:42:12 -0500, SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote: >I am battling two problems now, and i don’t know if it is >my drugs, or if there is a virus or fungus infection or >if there is a brain connection or what; i have almost daily >gastro problems ( won’t go into it in depth ) and what i >*think* is sinusitis; the fact that both started when >i withdrew from a drug, may be indicative or just coincidental; >but if any of you people have sinusitis (with a tongue coating) >and gastro, please let me know; i don’t think my doctor knows >what the problem is;
The tonge coating suggests reflux. Reflux can also cause cough and sinusitis.
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Funny thing. Today I was looking for something about sinus problems and found this: http://www.chronicprostatitis.com/comorbid.html It looks like there are others who have observed a similar relationship. "SqUiGgLeS" <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3DFB99F1.1106A83E@sympatico.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> PJ wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:42:12 -0500, SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> > > wrote: > > >I am battling two problems now, and i don’t know if it is > > >my drugs, or if there is a virus or fungus infection or > > >if there is a brain connection or what; i have almost daily > > >gastro problems ( won’t go into it in depth ) and what i > > >*think* is sinusitis; the fact that both started when > > >i withdrew from a drug, may be indicative or just coincidental; > > >but if any of you people have sinusitis (with a tongue coating) > > >and gastro, please let me know; i don’t think my doctor knows > > >what the problem is; > > >Squiggles > > Hi Sqiggles. > > I too suffer from gastro prblems, as well as Chronic sinus problem > > even after 2 sinus surgery. > > I have a condition called Crohns. Although Crohns is farly inactive in > > my gut (except for adhesions from bowel sugery) my ENT and Gastro feel > > what causes the inflammation of the bowel (Crohns) is also in my sinus > > passage. I also get unexplained inflammation in my neck and hips which > > appear as Rheatoid Arthrtis, but is not Arthrtis as my rhematoid > > factor is low in blood test. > > My I ask what the drug was you withdrew from? > > Anyway might be worth mentioning to you doctor about Crohns / colitis. > > Depends on what your gastro symptons are. > > PJ > Hi PJ, > Thank you for the feedback. Yes, i think i have similar > symptoms. I withdrew from clonazepam – a benzodiazepine taken > for a very long time (also called RIVOTRIL); that is when > the gastro problems began and they are going away ever so > slowly. > It could however, be something else. > Squiggles > — > "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will > pick himself up and carry on." > – Sir Winston Churchill
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -PJ wrote: > On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:42:12 -0500, SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> > wrote: > >I am battling two problems now, and i don’t know if it is > >my drugs, or if there is a virus or fungus infection or > >if there is a brain connection or what; i have almost daily > >gastro problems ( won’t go into it in depth ) and what i > >*think* is sinusitis; the fact that both started when > >i withdrew from a drug, may be indicative or just coincidental; > >but if any of you people have sinusitis (with a tongue coating) > >and gastro, please let me know; i don’t think my doctor knows > >what the problem is; > >Squiggles > Hi Sqiggles. > I too suffer from gastro prblems, as well as Chronic sinus problem > even after 2 sinus surgery. > I have a condition called Crohns. Although Crohns is farly inactive in > my gut (except for adhesions from bowel sugery) my ENT and Gastro feel > what causes the inflammation of the bowel (Crohns) is also in my sinus > passage. I also get unexplained inflammation in my neck and hips which > appear as Rheatoid Arthrtis, but is not Arthrtis as my rhematoid > factor is low in blood test. > My I ask what the drug was you withdrew from? > Anyway might be worth mentioning to you doctor about Crohns / colitis. > Depends on what your gastro symptons are. > PJ
Hi PJ, Thank you for the feedback. Yes, i think i have similar symptoms. I withdrew from clonazepam – a benzodiazepine taken for a very long time (also called RIVOTRIL); that is when the gastro problems began and they are going away ever so slowly. It could however, be something else. Squiggles — "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and carry on." – Sir Winston Churchill
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Hello PJ… As a 32 year sufferer with arthritis, I too believe there is a direct connection between my ongoing sinus infection and the arthritis. (many Doctors, however, believe it is an immune response associated with a specific bacteria of the gut.) Given your Crohns, low RF, plus hip and neck problems… I would suggest ankylosing spondylitis. Have you been tested for this? …I had it for 7 years before I was properly diagnosed. Also… I sometimes have gastro problems, but I think it has to do with the amount of infection material that continually flows down my throat. .Jon
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Don Brady wrote: > The tonge coating suggests reflux. > Reflux can also cause cough and sinusitis.
Thank you very much Don; i will do some research on gastro reflux; Squiggles
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On Thu, 12 Dec 2002 15:42:12 -0500, SqUiGgLeS <squig…@sympatico.ca> wrote: >I am battling two problems now, and i don’t know if it is >my drugs, or if there is a virus or fungus infection or >if there is a brain connection or what; i have almost daily >gastro problems ( won’t go into it in depth ) and what i >*think* is sinusitis; the fact that both started when >i withdrew from a drug, may be indicative or just coincidental; >but if any of you people have sinusitis (with a tongue coating) >and gastro, please let me know; i don’t think my doctor knows >what the problem is; >Squiggles
Hi Sqiggles. I too suffer from gastro prblems, as well as Chronic sinus problem even after 2 sinus surgery. I have a condition called Crohns. Although Crohns is farly inactive in my gut (except for adhesions from bowel sugery) my ENT and Gastro feel what causes the inflammation of the bowel (Crohns) is also in my sinus passage. I also get unexplained inflammation in my neck and hips which appear as Rheatoid Arthrtis, but is not Arthrtis as my rhematoid factor is low in blood test. My I ask what the drug was you withdrew from? Anyway might be worth mentioning to you doctor about Crohns / colitis. Depends on what your gastro symptons are. PJ
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Question:
>I have always wondered if my taking the flu shot was a coincidence. >That very day was the exact day that I developed chronic sinusitis for >the first time, and I’ve had it ever since.
A few weeks after my first and only shot around 1993 or 94, I had severe vertigo with 102 fever. I’ve never been the same since. I had sinus problems before then but it turned acute and uncontrollable after that also. I think vaccines are dangerous for adults because we have built up sensitivities to many things and antibiodies can cross react. For instance, why would someone with latex sensitivity also have reactions to bananas and melons? Science has no explaination, other than the antigens are similiar somehow, yet not everyone will react the same way. I personally am frightened by the possibility of needing to be re-vaccinated for small pox if it becomes manditory. Nadine
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Hello…. My sinuses took a nose dive immediately after a flu shot about 3 years ago. I had taken the flu shot a few years in a row prior to this time, and normally acquired minor flu-like symptoms a few days later; however, this particular one was definitely the guy that brought matters to a head. ….I haven’t had a flu shot since. …Jon
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"Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message
news:B92B6F98.F53%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> in article B92B6569.F4F%LPre…@NocomNocast.net, Larry Preuss at > LPre…@NocomNocast.net wrote on 6/11/02 8:29 AM: > > in article ae4puu$32…@knossos.btinternet.com, Duncan Robertson at > > Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com wrote on 6/11/02 8:20 AM: > >> from the cold and your mucosa was compromised Larry wrote > >> that ‘flu shot does nothing to the general virus population of > >> your > >> nose.’ Might there not be, in some rare cases, an exception to > >> this rule? > > No. > > Larry > Let me extend this thought a bit further. Duncan, you have just asked if > there might not be "in some rare cases, an exception to this rule?" You are > obviously looking for that one in a xxxxx circumstance that will justify > your original statement.
My original statement that the microflora of the sinus (or for that matter any other mucosal cavity of the body where microorganisms can flourish) is a balanced ‘ecosystem’ might have been better put. The word ‘ecosystem’ is inapropriate. ’Biocolony’ might be better. That statement, however, was "The inside of your > nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of bacteria, viruses and > molds. If you take a ‘flu shot, the viral population is depleted and the > bacteria and molds take adantage of this to increase." This is clearly > incorrect.
Admittedly You would be on much former ground if you would confine yourself > to your personal experiences, the relation of which would be > incontrovertible. When you try to instruct in physiology, having no basic > background from which to work
I achieved an 80% pass in my honours degree physiology and biochemistry , you sometimes fail. If you were to ask > questions, propose thoughts, wonder about possibilities, your contributions > could be unlimited. When you speak *authoritatively* without a solid basis > of information, you sometimes mislead.
Very well then. Fewer postings; more reading!
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in article ae4puu$32…@knossos.btinternet.com, Duncan Robertson at Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com wrote on 6/11/02 8:20 AM: > from the cold and your mucosa was compromised Larry wrote > that ‘flu shot does nothing to the general virus population of > your > nose.’ Might there not be, in some rare cases, an exception to > this rule?
No. Larry
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in article B92B6569.F4F%LPre…@NocomNocast.net, Larry Preuss at LPre…@NocomNocast.net wrote on 6/11/02 8:29 AM: > in article ae4puu$32…@knossos.btinternet.com, Duncan Robertson at > Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com wrote on 6/11/02 8:20 AM: >> from the cold and your mucosa was compromised Larry wrote >> that ‘flu shot does nothing to the general virus population of >> your >> nose.’ Might there not be, in some rare cases, an exception to >> this rule? > No. > Larry
Let me extend this thought a bit further. Duncan, you have just asked if there might not be "in some rare cases, an exception to this rule?" You are obviously looking for that one in a xxxxx circumstance that will justify your original statement. That statement, however, was "The inside of your nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of bacteria, viruses and molds. If you take a ‘flu shot, the viral population is depleted and the bacteria and molds take adantage of this to increase." This is clearly incorrect. You would be on much former ground if you would confine yourself to your personal experiences, the relation of which would be incontrovertible. When you try to instruct in physiology, having no basic background from which to work, you sometimes fail. If you were to ask questions, propose thoughts, wonder about possibilities, your contributions could be unlimited. When you speak *authoritatively* without a solid basis of information, you sometimes mislead. Larry
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"Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message
news:B929FF4A.CC5%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… > I don’t think you are going to be able to sell that "basically dirt" idea. > May I ask for a shred of evidence/
There’s tons of it.
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"Duncan Robertson" <Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com> wrote in message > Do you mean that an adjuvant is normally included to augment the > immune reaction, besides the actual vaccine?
Yes. > What is the nature of the adjuvant, if this is so?
I’m not too sure. My understanding is that it is just molecular debris – not ‘dirt’ in the literal sense, but it’s non-specific stuff.
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in article ae29rq$2lu…@otis.netspace.net.au, Richard Cavell at richardcav…@mail.com wrote on 6/10/02 9:34 AM: > "Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message > news:B929FF4A.CC5%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… >> I don’t think you are going to be able to sell that "basically dirt" idea. >> May I ask for a shred of evidence/ > There’s tons of it.
Well said. Spill some of it here. Lp
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in article ae29ti$2lu…@otis.netspace.net.au, Richard Cavell at richardcav…@mail.com wrote on 6/10/02 9:35 AM: > "Duncan Robertson" <Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com> wrote in message >> Do you mean that an adjuvant is normally included to augment the >> immune reaction, besides the actual vaccine? > Yes. >> What is the nature of the adjuvant, if this is so? > I’m not too sure. My understanding is that it is just molecular debris – > not ‘dirt’ in the literal sense, but it’s non-specific stuff.
Is it specific enough that you can document for us that it exists? Lp
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Duncan Robertson" <Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com> wrote in message <news:ae2096$h7u$1@paris.btinternet.com>… > "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… > > Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > > like my experience: > > While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they > > had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. > > In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, > > and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. > > I took the flu shot and went home. > > That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick > > yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my > > throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything like > > it in my life before.
The reaction happend hours after the flu shot. Please keep this in mind, Duncan. > Hi Sreven! > The inside of your nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of > bacteria, viruses and molds.
Not exactly – but certainly there is "stuff" in the nasal passages – but are they really infesting your sinuses? When you culture it, you don’t really find that is the case. >If you take a ‘flu shot, the viral > population > is depleted
Now that would be the first mistake, but not the last. >and the bacteria and molds take adantage of this to increase
Not exactly – your nose is not the wilds of Africa where there’s competition for water and food. Please note – your NOSE is not…OK! > If you take an antibiotic, the molds and yeasts move in to take the space > freed of bacteria. We can take probiotics (Shudder!! Alternative > medicine!!)
and that explains the lack of science – but thanks for playing. amp
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"amp_spamfree" <amp_spamf…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192abe3.0206100631.47a5d4f8@posting.google.com… > "Duncan Robertson" <Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com> wrote in message
<news:ae2096$h7u$1@paris.btinternet.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… > > > Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > > > like my experience: > > > While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they > > > had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. > > > In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, > > > and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. > > > I took the flu shot and went home. > > > That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick > > > yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my > > > throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything like > > > it in my life before. > The reaction happend hours after the flu shot. Please keep this in > mind, Duncan. > > Hi Sreven! > > The inside of your nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of > > bacteria, viruses and molds. > Not exactly – but certainly there is "stuff" in the nasal passages – > but are they really infesting your sinuses? When you culture it, you > don’t really find that is the case.
This is a repeat post: Refer to this article: http://www.ent-consult.com/fungalsinusitis.html Breakthrough Discovery: Fungi are the Dominant Cause of Chronic Sinusitis ————————————————————————— – —- ROCHESTER (Sept. 9. 1999) – Mayo Clinic Researchers announced that they have made a breakthrough in understanding chronic sinusitis, that it is caused not by a bacteriological infection, but most likely by the effects of fungi in the mucous of patients. "We can finally begin to treat the disease, not the symptoms", said Kern of the discovery team of Drs. David Sherris, Eugene Kern and Jens Ponikau. The Mayo team studied 210 patients and found fungi in 96% of the patient’s mucus. While allergic response to fungi was suspected in about 10% of cases, the evidence points to fungi as the cause of the problem in the vast majority of cases. The research shows that an immune system response, not an allergy to fungi was the cause of the chronic sinusitis. Many types of fungi were identified in the patients’ mucous. Chronic sinusitis – identified as sinusitis lasting more than 30 days – is typically identified by symptoms of a "drippy" nose, congestion, headaches, and reduced sense of smell. Frequently the chronic inflammation leads to polyps, small growths in the nasal passages which obstruct breathing, sinus drainage, and block passage to the smell organ. Doctors are aware of sinusitis of fungal origin. Mucus inside the sinus will be high in eosinophiles (the white cells common in allergy). The most important application of the study is in the treatment of this disease. Over-the-counter decongestants and antibiotics are frequently used, but are ineffective. While the over-the-counter remedies may provide some relief, they are not effective against the inflammation. Antibiotics are effective only against bacteriological infections, and therefore do nothing for this chronic condition, and contribute to producing antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. The patient is in fact set up for trouble treating unrelated infections in later life, and adds to the overall problem our society is just now beginning to face. The new research holds hope for improved treatment with drugs targeted directly at the fungi. The discovery was originally reported in the September 1999 issue of the journal Mayo Clinic Proceedings. ————————————————————————— – —- Drs. Sherris, Kern and Ponikau are to be congratulated for their excellent research pinpointing fungi as the cause of chronic sinusitis. Unlike ineffectual treatment with decongestants and antibiotics, pulsatile saline irrigation effectively removes the mucous harboring the fungi, is medically proven to increase the body’s natural mechanism to remove foreign materials, and has been used as an effective delivery vehicle for anti-fungal medications. For more information on the use of anti-fungal medications, contact your physician.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Craig Health" <CR…@noscape.net> wrote in message <news:9xaN8.13266$n42.560765998@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com>… > "amp_spamfree" <amp_spamf…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:1192abe3.0206100631.47a5d4f8@posting.google.com… > > "Duncan Robertson" <Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com> wrote in message > <news:ae2096$h7u$1@paris.btinternet.com>… > > > "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > > news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… > > > > Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is > anything > > > > like my experience: > > > > While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they > > > > had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. > > > > In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, > > > > and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. > > > > I took the flu shot and went home. > > > > That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick > > > > yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my > > > > throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything > like > > > > it in my life before. > > The reaction happend hours after the flu shot. Please keep this in > > mind, Duncan. > > > Hi Sreven! > > > The inside of your nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of > > > bacteria, viruses and molds. > > Not exactly – but certainly there is "stuff" in the nasal passages – > > but are they really infesting your sinuses? When you culture it, you > > don’t really find that is the case. > This is a repeat post: > Refer to this article: > http://www.ent-consult.com/fungalsinusitis.html > Breakthrough Discovery: Fungi are the Dominant Cause of Chronic Sinusitis > ————————————————————————— – > —- > ROCHESTER (Sept. 9. 1999) – Mayo Clinic Researchers announced that they have > made a breakthrough in understanding chronic sinusitis,
Let me make this VERY clear – when I culture normal flora from the nasal passages, I can grow all sorts of stuff and the patient is NOT symtomatic. When I culture the sinuses of the same patient, I can’t grow squat. When I culture a sinusitis patient, all bets are off. I can grow all sorts of crap. Thanks for playing. amp
Response:
"amp_spamfree" <amp_spamf…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1192abe3.0206100631.47a5d4f8@posting.google.com… > "Duncan Robertson" <Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com> wrote in message
<news:ae2096$h7u$1@paris.btinternet.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > > news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… > > > Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > > > like my experience: > > > While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they > > > had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. > > > In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, > > > and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. > > > I took the flu shot and went home. > > > That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick > > > yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my > > > throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything like > > > it in my life before. > The reaction happend hours after the flu shot. Please keep this in > mind, Duncan.
Hi Steven. There’s a new technique for delivering the ‘flu vaccine via the nose. You didn’t have it this way, I’m sure. There are some egg-derived proteins with the vaccine. In this respect Richard is right, but they weren’t added deliberately. The vaccines used in any particular year are grown on the chorioallantoic membranes of developing chicks. It’s unavoidable that there should be some extra antigens in the vaccine derived from the method of preparation. There’s also some thiomersal in the vaccine to help preserve it. You wrote that you had a ‘mild cold’ shortly before you had ‘flu vaccine. Viral rhinitis is another name for the ‘common cold.’ Viruses are more effective in invading mucosa than bacteria since they are more soluble in the mucous blanket. They bring about an exfoliation of the mucosa which can last for weeks. Bacterial superinfection is often the consequence of a common cold, since the mucocilliary mechanism is damaged. Possibly, the ‘flu shot triggered off a heavy bacterial infection just as you were recovering from the cold and your mucosa was compromised Larry wrote that ‘flu shot does nothing to the general virus population of your nose.’ Might there not be, in some rare cases, an exception to this rule? I realise that systemic antibodies to the flu vaccine would penetrate very slowly, if at all, into the paranasal sinuses It’s possible, also, that the’flu shot didn’t really start off your serious bacterial sinusitis – the initial cause of all your trouble – butr that you’d have had the sinus flare-up even if you hadn’t had the ‘flu vaccine. It’s serious, since many sinus sufferers get ‘flu shots but I.ve never heard of anyone getting the kind of flare-up which you described. I think that the earlier weakening of your nasal mucosa by a rhinovisus(es) led to an opportunistic heavy bacterial infection.
Response:
in article ae1t29$2jt…@otis.netspace.net.au, Richard Cavell at richardcav…@mail.com wrote on 6/10/02 5:55 AM: > "Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message > news:B929E9E4.CB8%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… >> C’mon. "Dirty little secret"? Of course they put stuff in to make you >> generate an immune response; that’s what a vaccine, any vaccine, does. > What I’m saying is that they incorporate all kinds of other molecules – > basically ‘dirt’ – that have nothing to do with the actual antigen. So you > will get an immunological response to the dirt, which potentiates the cells > that are participating in the response to the antigen.
I don’t think you are going to be able to sell that "basically dirt" idea. May I ask for a shred of evidence/ Larry
Response:
"Richard Cavell" <richardcav…@mail.com> wrote in message
news:ae1t29$2jt2$1@otis.netspace.net.au… > "Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message > news:B929E9E4.CB8%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… > > C’mon. "Dirty little secret"? Of course they put stuff in to make you > > generate an immune response; that’s what a vaccine, any vaccine, does. > What I’m saying is that they incorporate all kinds of other molecules – > basically ‘dirt’ – that have nothing to do with the actual antigen. So you > will get an immunological response to the dirt, which potentiates the cells > that are participating in the response to the antigen.
Do you mean that an adjuvant is normally included to augment the immune reaction, besides the actual vaccine? What is the nature of the adjuvant, if this is so? Experimenta using purified antigens in vivo, sometimes utilise heat-killed tubercule bacteria to boost the often weakly antigenic substance under test. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
in article ae2096$h7…@paris.btinternet.com, Duncan Robertson at Duncan.Roberts…@btinternet.com wrote on 6/10/02 6:50 AM: > Hi Sreven! > The inside of your nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of > bacteria, viruses and molds. If you take a ‘flu shot, the viral > population > is depleted and the bacteria and molds take adantage of this to increase > If you take an antibiotic, the molds and yeasts move in to take the space > freed of bacteria.
This is incorrect. A flu shot does nothing to the general viral population of your nose. It is specific for the viruses of influenza, which are never normal inhabitants. Even then, it does nothing to the nasal viral population, but "neutralizes" the virus when it attains systemic distribution. Larry
Response:
"Larry Preuss" <LPre…@NocomNocast.net> wrote in message
news:B929E9E4.CB8%LPreuss@NocomNocast.net… > C’mon. "Dirty little secret"? Of course they put stuff in to make you > generate an immune response; that’s what a vaccine, any vaccine, does.
What I’m saying is that they incorporate all kinds of other molecules – basically ‘dirt’ – that have nothing to do with the actual antigen. So you will get an immunological response to the dirt, which potentiates the cells that are participating in the response to the antigen.
Response:
"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > like my experience: > While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they > had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. > In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, > and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. > I took the flu shot and went home. > That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick > yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my > throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything like > it in my life before. > My physician diagnosed acute sinusitis one more time, and again put me > on antibiotics. > But this time, no antibiotic he prescribed worked. I ended up with > chronic sinusitis from this, and eventually had to go for sinus surgery > (which has been only partially successful anyway). > I have always wondered if my taking the flu shot was a coincidence. > That very day was the exact day that I developed chronic sinusitis for > the first time, and I’ve had it ever since.
Hi Sreven! The inside of your nose is an ecosystem with a mixed population of bacteria, viruses and molds. If you take a ‘flu shot, the viral population is depleted and the bacteria and molds take adantage of this to increase If you take an antibiotic, the molds and yeasts move in to take the space freed of bacteria. We can take probiotics (Shudder!! Alternative medicine!!) to restore the balance of non-invasive bacteria in the gut after antibiotics but we can’t do this for the nose. We need a culture of bacteria suitable for this purpose to be introduced in the form of a nasal spray but no such culture exists. Something to limit the spread of yeasts and molds in the nose after the use of antibiotics. All there is available > for fungae are Sporanox and Amphotericin B and suchlike – all poisons
for the liver. Is it possible to use a fungicids in the SinuNEB or would that be too risky? I wouldn’t like to be the first to try! There is Dr. Iveker’s antifungal diet which I have consumed, unaware of the antifungal properties, for many years. I think it is always a good principle to keep one’s physical health at the best level without too much physical exertion. With optimum health comes an optimally functioning immune system and one’s natural defences have a fighting chance of dealing with upsurges in the activity of invasive bacteria, visuses and molds. Clolostrum (Ugh!! more natural remedies!!) has been suggested to boost the immune system. It seems to be harmless, except to the contents of your wallet! It is also pointless to write that ‘Dr. Iveker’s approach has failed.’ The experiment to test Dr. Iveker’s ideas would last a lifetime. Your lifestyle itself would be under test. Duncan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… > Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > like my experience:
Having a flu vaccine can cause flu-like symptoms. The reason is immunology’s ‘dirty little secret’ – they put crap into the vaccine to generate an immune response, to make sure that you become immune. Chronic sinusitis is not related to the vaccine.
Response:
in article ae1cpb$2de…@otis.netspace.net.au, Richard Cavell at richardcav…@mail.com wrote on 6/10/02 1:17 AM: > "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… >> Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything >> like my experience: > Having a flu vaccine can cause flu-like symptoms. The reason is > immunology’s ‘dirty little secret’ – they put crap into the vaccine to > generate an immune response, to make sure that you become immune.
C’mon. "Dirty little secret"? Of course they put stuff in to make you generate an immune response; that’s what a vaccine, any vaccine, does.
Response:
in article 3D0423D5.FE94A…@earthlink.net, Steven Litvintchouk at sdlit…@earthlink.net wrote on 6/9/02 11:58 PM: > Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > like my experience:
I have often wondered if it was because of the Swine Flu Shot I got circa 1976 caused me to have sinus problems. I never had them before I got that shot. I have heard that people have developed problems due to innoculations. That shot was a fiasco. Tom
Response:
"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3D0423D5.FE94AD69@earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything > like my experience: > While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they > had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. > In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, > and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. > I took the flu shot and went home. > That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick > yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my > throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything like > it in my life before. > My physician diagnosed acute sinusitis one more time, and again put me > on antibiotics. > But this time, no antibiotic he prescribed worked. I ended up with > chronic sinusitis from this, and eventually had to go for sinus surgery > (which has been only partially successful anyway).
Refer to this article: http://www.ent-consult.com/fungalsinusitis.html Breakthrough Discovery: Fungi are the Dominant Cause of Chronic Sinusitis ————————————————————————— – —- ROCHESTER (Sept. 9. 1999) – Mayo Clinic Researchers announced that they have made a breakthrough in understanding chronic sinusitis, that it is caused not by a bacteriological infection, but most likely by the effects of fungi in the mucous of patients. "We can finally begin to treat the disease, not the symptoms", said Kern of the discovery team of Drs. David Sherris, Eugene Kern and Jens Ponikau. The Mayo team studied 210 patients and found fungi in 96% of the patient’s mucus. While allergic response to fungi was suspected in about 10% of cases, the evidence points to fungi as the cause of the problem in the vast majority of cases. The research shows that an immune system response, not an allergy to fungi was the cause of the chronic sinusitis. Many types of fungi were identified in the patients’ mucous. Chronic sinusitis – identified as sinusitis lasting more than 30 days – is typically identified by symptoms of a "drippy" nose, congestion, headaches, and reduced sense of smell. Frequently the chronic inflammation leads to polyps, small growths in the nasal passages which obstruct breathing, sinus drainage, and block passage to the smell organ. Doctors are aware of sinusitis of fungal origin. Mucus inside the sinus will be high in eosinophiles (the white cells common in allergy). The most important application of the study is in the treatment of this disease. Over-the-counter decongestants and antibiotics are frequently used, but are ineffective. While the over-the-counter remedies may provide some relief, they are not effective against the inflammation. Antibiotics are effective only against bacteriological infections, and therefore do nothing for this chronic condition, and contribute to producing antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria. The patient is in fact set up for trouble treating unrelated infections in later life, and adds to the overall problem our society is just now beginning to face. The new research holds hope for improved treatment with drugs targeted directly at the fungi. The discovery was originally reported in the September 1999 issue of the journal Mayo Clinic Proceedings. ————————————————————————— – —- Drs. Sherris, Kern and Ponikau are to be congratulated for their excellent research pinpointing fungi as the cause of chronic sinusitis. Unlike ineffectual treatment with decongestants and antibiotics, pulsatile saline irrigation effectively removes the mucous harboring the fungi, is medically proven to increase the body’s natural mechanism to remove foreign materials, and has been used as an effective delivery vehicle for anti-fungal medications. For more information on the use of anti-fungal medications, contact your physician.
Response:
Has anyone ever heard of a rare reaction to a flu shot that is anything like my experience: While I had suffered a few sinus infections in the early 1990’s, they had been treated successfully by oral antibiotics. In late September 1993, I had gotten over a mild cold a week earlier, and so I decided to take a flu shot that my employer was giving out. I took the flu shot and went home. That evening, around 8 PM, I suddenly developed a torrent of thick yellow/green crap pouring out of my sinuses and down the back of my throat, making me gag and choke. I had never experienced anything like it in my life before. My physician diagnosed acute sinusitis one more time, and again put me on antibiotics. But this time, no antibiotic he prescribed worked. I ended up with chronic sinusitis from this, and eventually had to go for sinus surgery (which has been only partially successful anyway). I have always wondered if my taking the flu shot was a coincidence. That very day was the exact day that I developed chronic sinusitis for the first time, and I’ve had it ever since. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net
Response:
Question:
Ray Killeen wrote: > Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message <news:3CE8810C.C2CDDCF3@earthlink.net>… > Secondly, what dosage and time frame was prescribed on the Diflucan > and when did you start?
I haven’t started yet. I’ll let you know after my pulmonologist fills the prescription. > Maybe consider "the" diet why you’re taking > the Diflucan?
There is no evidence that you can cure any sort of infection, let alone a fungal infection, with diet. Even Dr. Ivker, who literally wrote the book on holistic treatment of sinusitis ("Sinus Survival"), has stated that to kill the overgrowth of candida, a prescription antifungal medication is the way to go. He believes that *after* the infection is eradicated, dietary changes may prevent a recurrence. > You’re liver? I was concerned about the rare case of liver damage but > it seems most people that have this problem found it reversible. I > took Milk thistle since there seems to be some merit to its liver > enhancing properties. More then one doctor recommended it to me. Then > again I’m a paranoid kind of guy.
So is my pulmonologist. That is why she had me take a liver function test prior to starting, and after I start, she wants me to repeat the test every two weeks for a month or so. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net
Response:
"Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:3jaheucvtu2lu2vq195e8ah4vfgou309a3@4ax.com… > On Mon, 20 May 2002 04:52:59 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk
<sdlit…@earthlink.net> > wrote: > >My home is full of mold (that’s from the humidifier and vaporizer I > >used). > Time to sell it and move.
Or clean up the mold!
Response:
"Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3CE8810C.C2CDDCF3@earthlink.net… > Are you aware of the recent research by the Mayo Clinic and others, > which is beginning to suggest that chronic sinusitis may be due to > hitherto unsuspected *fungal* infections? They just started clinical > trials on volunteer sinus sufferers, to see if antifungal medications > might help their sinus problems.
I thought though, that the research didn’t actually involve fungal infections, but that many of us have immune systems that overreact to fungi, and that that overreaction creates the nasal/sinus problems. Probably everyone has some fungi in the nose, but the systems of some over-react to it. Therefore, I would think it would be better if they tried to find a way to curb the over-reaction, as they attempt to do with allergy desensitization, rather than just killing fungi. I would wonder about long term negative consequences of using anti-fungal medicine for the rest of one’s life. Also, when on irrigates with the stuff, I understand one cannot use salt in the water, and irrigation without salt can be very irritating, and lead to increased edema.
Response:
That is correct, the growth from the patients is the same as the growth from the general population. It is the over reaction with eosinophiles that produces the toxic products that couse symptoms. Possibly pulsatlle irrigation to remove the materials can help. Unfortunately the drugs can’t be added to the water pik solution in saline and are uncomfortable. Various trials are being done with irrigation followed by the drugs in sprays. No data yet on results. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm
Response:
MS wrote: > "Steven Litvintchouk" <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message > news:3CE8810C.C2CDDCF3@earthlink.net… > > Are you aware of the recent research by the Mayo Clinic and others, > > which is beginning to suggest that chronic sinusitis may be due to > > hitherto unsuspected *fungal* infections? They just started clinical > > trials on volunteer sinus sufferers, to see if antifungal medications > > might help their sinus problems. > I thought though, that the research didn’t actually involve fungal > infections, but that many of us have immune systems that overreact to fungi, > and that that overreaction creates the nasal/sinus problems. Probably > everyone has some fungi in the nose, but the systems of some over-react to > it.
Yes, this immune system reaction appears to be unique. It involves eosinophil cells, but is not the usual allergic response. > Therefore, I would think it would be better if they tried to find a way to > curb the over-reaction, as they attempt to do with allergy desensitization, > rather than just killing fungi. I would wonder about long term negative > consequences of using anti-fungal medicine for the rest of one’s life. Also, > when on irrigates with the stuff, I understand one cannot use salt in the > water, and irrigation without salt can be very irritating, and lead to > increased edema.
You are basically correct on all counts. Unfortunately, killing the overgrowth of fungi is the only technique that science knows how to do at the current time. Finding a way to intercept the over-reaction is going to require lots more research. They will have to understand in detail just what the mechanisms are. (It has taken decades of research to understand what the mechanisms of allergic reactions are.) I’m sure that research is underway, but not likely to produce any short-term breakthroughs. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net
Response:
In article <20020521130657.10076.00000…@mb-ch.aol.com>, entcons…@aol.com (ENTconsult) wrote: > That is correct, the growth from the patients is the same as the growth from > the general population. It is the over reaction with eosinophiles that > produces > the toxic products that couse symptoms. Possibly pulsatlle irrigation to > remove > the materials can help.
Why do you feel that irrigation may help. The eosinophils to which you refer, and their noxious products, are within the tissue rather than on its surface or in its exudate. Is it that you feel irrigation will help *anything*? Larry
Response:
Will not irrigation help to wash out fungi and other substances against which the "over-reaction" may be taking place. "Larry Preuss" <LPre…@provide.net> wrote in message
news:210520021317081760%LPreuss@provide.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <20020521130657.10076.00000…@mb-ch.aol.com>, > entcons…@aol.com (ENTconsult) wrote: > > That is correct, the growth from the patients is the same as the growth from > > the general population. It is the over reaction with eosinophiles that > > produces > > the toxic products that couse symptoms. Possibly pulsatlle irrigation to > > remove > > the materials can help. > Why do you feel that irrigation may help. The eosinophils to which you > refer, and their noxious products, are within the tissue rather than on > its surface or in its exudate. Is it that you feel irrigation will help > *anything*? > Larry
Response:
I may well have misunderstood Dr. Grossan, but he has spoken before of washing eosinophil-produced toxins out of the nose. I thought he might have been repeating the sense of what he said on 2/28/01: "Not exactly. it seems that in some unresponsive chronic sinusitis there is an aberrant reaction to the fungus that may prolong the disease. The eosinophiles that are to protect the body produce toxins that harm the body. This is one of the good effects of pulsatile irrigation, much of those toxins are removed before they can build up." In article <ace0fu$id…@knossos.btinternet.com>, "Tony Knight" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<kni…@btinternet.com> wrote: > Will not irrigation help to wash out fungi and other substances against > which the "over-reaction" may be taking place. > "Larry Preuss" <LPre…@provide.net> wrote in message > news:210520021317081760%LPreuss@provide.net… > > In article <20020521130657.10076.00000…@mb-ch.aol.com>, > > entcons…@aol.com (ENTconsult) wrote: > > > That is correct, the growth from the patients is the same as the growth > from > > > the general population. It is the over reaction with eosinophiles that > > > produces > > > the toxic products that couse symptoms. Possibly pulsatlle irrigation to > > > remove > > > the materials can help. > > Why do you feel that irrigation may help. The eosinophils to which you > > refer, and their noxious products, are within the tissue rather than on > > its surface or in its exudate. Is it that you feel irrigation will help > > *anything*? > > Larry
Response:
MS wrote: > "Don Brady" <dbr…@pobox.com> wrote in message > news:3jaheucvtu2lu2vq195e8ah4vfgou309a3@4ax.com… > > On Mon, 20 May 2002 04:52:59 GMT, Steven Litvintchouk > <sdlit…@earthlink.net> > > wrote: > > >My home is full of mold (that’s from the humidifier and vaporizer I > > >used). > > Time to sell it and move. > Or clean up the mold!
I’ve been trying to do that with Clorox. However, the Clorox fumes are so overpowering that I need to keep the windows wide open to ventilate fresh air. And up till now, that’s been impossible here in the Boston suburbs. The temperature has been way below normal. Did you hear that it actually *snowed* last Sunday? That’s right, we got snow and freezing temperatures on May 19–we set a couple records. This Memorial Day weekend looks to be warmer. It’s time to do a general cleaning of all that mold. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net
Response:
Clinical experience shows a reduction of symptoms in the true fungus patients – the immunocomprimised ones. The benefit comes from improving cilia movement and thereby mucociliary clearance. Also there is a dilution factor. Be patient, the articles are coming. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm
Response:
Larry, by this time you must have some patients who use pulsatile irrigation. What is your opinion of the results of the patients you directly observe who have used irrigation for post nasal drip, chronic sinusitis, etc? Has it helped any of your asthmatics? Were you forced to get them all to stop because of negative results? If the results of any of your patients using pulsatile irrigation are 100% bad, it would be helpful to the readers to know. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net http://www.emedicine.com/ent/topic516.htm
Response:
In article <3CE8810C.C2CDD…@earthlink.net>, Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote: > I pleaded with her to consider a trial of Diflucan, and she > finally agreed to it.
How long have you been on it and at what dose? Any positive results? ph
Response:
Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote in message <news:3CE8810C.C2CDDCF3@earthlink.net>… > Originally, my pulmonologist didn’t think much of it, but after the > second sputum culture came back positive for fungus too, she’s beginning > to wonder. I pleaded with her to consider a trial of Diflucan, and she > finally agreed to it.
First, thanks for the heads up on the Glyconutrients. Secondly, what dosage and time frame was prescribed on the Diflucan and when did you start? Maybe consider "the" diet why you’re taking the Diflucan? > What have I got to lose?
You’re liver? I was concerned about the rare case of liver damage but it seems most people that have this problem found it reversible. I took Milk thistle since there seems to be some merit to its liver enhancing properties. More then one doctor recommended it to me. Then again I’m a paranoid kind of guy. Keep your fingers crossed, I hope things work out for you.
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pharde…@SPAMdrizzle.com wrote: > In article <3CE8810C.C2CDD…@earthlink.net>, > Steven Litvintchouk <sdlit…@earthlink.net> wrote: > > I pleaded with her to consider a trial of Diflucan, and she > > finally agreed to it. > How long have you been on it and at what dose? Any positive results?
I haven’t started yet, because my pulmonologist wanted to get a liver function test from me as a baseline. I just did that late last week. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net
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Noah Meanin wrote: > Has anyone else felt like their doc is not thinking ‘outside the box’?
Yes. Doctors try to follow established, proven protocols, rather than experiment on their patients like lab rats. If a doctor knowingly deviates from "best established practice" to try something totally unique and arcane and unproven, and the patient ends up getting sicker, the patient could sue the doctor for malpractice. > I guess my point it that the surgery does not seem to have resolved the > inflammatory problems. I have even heard someone suggest on this board that > they seemed to have worse allergies because their sinus cavities were now > more exposed.
There are a few important questions I need to ask you: Can you recall how and when your symptoms first started? Was the onset sudden, or gradual? Did it seem to be triggered by some acute illness, or what? Can you recall any major changes to your life (or lifestyle) that occurred around that same time? Can you recall any other illnesses (even non-infectious ones) that occurred around that same time? Bear with me; I have a reason for asking these questions. > I have a feeling there is some kind of virus out there nailing people, and > causing mucosal and sinus swelling.
You’re implying that your symptoms started suddenly, after you caught some kind of acute respiratory infection? Is this true? Are you aware of the recent research by the Mayo Clinic and others, which is beginning to suggest that chronic sinusitis may be due to hitherto unsuspected *fungal* infections? They just started clinical trials on volunteer sinus sufferers, to see if antifungal medications might help their sinus problems. My home is full of mold (that’s from the humidifier and vaporizer I used). I am beginning to wonder if the mold spores have actually infected my respiratory tract. I had two sputum cultures, taken several months apart, both of which tested positive for Candida overgrowth. (And that was with the older culture technologies; who knows what else Mayo might have found?) The sputum is almost certainly contaminated with postnasal drip from my sinuses. So the Candida may well be up in there. Originally, my pulmonologist didn’t think much of it, but after the second sputum culture came back positive for fungus too, she’s beginning to wonder. I pleaded with her to consider a trial of Diflucan, and she finally agreed to it. What have I got to lose? — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email: sdlit…@earthlink.net
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Has anyone else felt like their doc is not thinking ‘outside the box’? If you talk about sinus pressure, they talk about infection and antibiotics. If no infection, then allergy. If no allergy then ‘non-allergic rhinitis’ and then you get nasal sprays, end of story. Surgery does not correct the inflammatory response. I did not have sinus ‘infection’ that much. No post nasal drip, mucous, etc. Just blockage due to swelling, swollen lymph nodes, sinus headaches all the time. During office visits, I sometimes felt like I was being put in the wrong diagnostic box. Surgery was proposed and performed to opening up airways to allow for ‘drainage’ when there didn’t seem to be much to drain. For years I had the same anatomy with some congestion, but the inflammatory stuff started of its own accord. Fixing the inflammation (if possible) seems like it would have been the better choice over surgery. 11 months post-FESS and I still have inflammation, tons of headaches and aches over the frontal and maxillary. Yes it is easier to inhale air. But the mucosa/turbinates do not feel as sensitive to the air. For quite a while after the surgery, I could smell nothing (although it has come back somewhat). Also, for about a month? after the surgery I had the very disturbing feeling of cold dry air hitting nerves in my nose/head. It felt like nothing was ‘blocking’ the air. The turbinates play the role of warming and humidifying air. If you read up the articles you will find of the much-debated "empty nose" syndrome. Supposedly older pre-FESS techniques were more damaging to the turbinates, or ENT’s removed to much turbinate tissue. I guess my point it that the surgery does not seem to have resolved the inflammatory problems. I have even heard someone suggest on this board that they seemed to have worse allergies because their sinus cavities were now more exposed. I tested negative to common allergies. So I’m at a loss of what to do. Antihistamines do nothing. Nasacort and Astelin do very little if anything. I have a tube of Ayr saline gell with me at all times (to deal with the feeling of dryness and non-humidifying breathing). To those of you who post about having bouts of sinus infection several times a year, consider yourselves very lucky. I deal with this every day, all day (for the past 2 years or so). With the swollen lymph nodes, I feel like I have mono (but I don’t). The other day I asked a question at my doc’s office about cystic fibrosis, and the physician assistant just laughed and told me about allergy season. I have a feeling there is some kind of virus out there nailing people, and causing mucosal and sinus swelling. Everyone is getting mis-diagnosed and is being put on Allegra and Claritin. There was a very interesting article in the New York Times Magazine several months ago about the pharmaceutical industry and the pushing of Allegra and Claritin. Sincere thanks to everyone who posts helpful information on this board. NM
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