Grossan Irrigator

Question:

healths…@worldnet.att.net wrote: > Just a note to share with all those having problems locating the Grossan > product. I recently contacted Health Solutions to find out where I could > purchase the Grossan product as I was having difficulty. I was informed > that Bergen Brunswig the nations leading drug wholeseller recently > picked up the item and will be making it available to their customers > nationwide upon request begining April 1. I was told to simply contact > a Longs, Drug Emporium,Osco,Sav-On, or independent and ask that they > contact Bergen Brunswig for the item (part# 763-946). A lot easier than > calling around > Thanks. > Sandy

The Grossan Irrigator Tips will soon be available at a pharmacy near you. Bergen Brunswig a leading supplier to the chain drug industry has recently agreed to distribute the item. However, not all divisions may stock the item and Bergen Brunswig does not distribute to all drug stores. We will publish a list on this newsgroup within a few days to help those locate the item. A sampling of retailers include Sav-On, Osco, Fred Meyer, Drug Emporium, Tom Thumb Stores, and others. Simply provide your pharmacy the Bergen part number (763-946) and they should be able to get it within a couple of days. Thank you to those of you that have persisted in their support of this very beneficial and unique item. Mel Tenen Health Solutions (310) 364-0942 (800) 305-4095

Response:

Mel, Health Solutions must have other products almost as good as the Grossan Irrigator…where is your web site so we can see and buy? Thanks. — Clare

Response:

Just a note to share with all those having problems locating the Grossan product. I recently contacted Health Solutions to find out where I could purchase the Grossan product as I was having difficulty. I was informed that Bergen Brunswig the nations leading drug wholeseller recently picked up the item and will be making it available to their customers nationwide upon request begining April 1. I was told to simply contact a Longs, Drug Emporium,Osco,Sav-On, or independent and ask that they contact Bergen Brunswig for the item (part# 763-946). A lot easier than calling around Thanks. Sandy

Response:

Yes, but after the free samples run out, it is much more expensive even than the Entsol packets. I’ve tried it, and didn’t notice any difference from plain salt and baking soda. (Of course, human beings are very suggestible, so perhaps the placebo effect would work for you if you think a "special formula" would work better. It (BEXL) is mostly salt and baking soda anyhow, with tiny amounts of potassium chloride and calcium chloride as well. (Both ingredients can be purchased very cheaply.) Also, the XL means that the sugar xylitol has been added to it (I assume also a very small amount). No studies have shown any beneficial effect of adding sugar (of any type) to irrigation solution. "ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20030526133717.27102.00000344@mb-m06.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Would you like to try the Breathe.ease XL ? this is the Ringer’s formula . > You can contact me at entcons…@aol.com for samples. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

One reason the home made mixes feel better is that they are "fresh" and don’t contain preservatives such as benzalkonium which may burn or irritate the nose. A recent study indicated that benzalkonium may affect the olfactory cells. Anyone notice this? Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

Would you like to try the Breathe.ease XL ? this is the Ringer’s formula . You can contact me at entcons…@aol.com for samples. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

"cwhite0714" <cwhite0…@fsi.net> wrote in message

news:985b3ebb.0305251651.2d0cca57@posting.google.com… > I’d been using 1/4 tsp salt in a neti pot when I saw an ENT who told > me that Entsol solution was "better." It’s a buffered hypertonic > solution with four salt-related ingredients in it. For a while I > switched to 1/4 tsp of that in the neti pot. It’s expensive! And while > it felt better than just salt, that didn’t seem to justify the extra > cost. So when I ran into something suggesting that adding 1/8 tsp > baking soda to the salt might be useful, I tried that. Much better > than just salt! And way cheaper than Entsol solution. (And I don’t > have to persuade the pharmacist to look it up and order it for me now. > They all acted as though I was an idiot, and never apologized when > they actually found the substance listed in their order book. Grr.)

Entsol solution, besides being expensive, is very irritating to my nose, due to its hypertonicity, too much salt. I think their hypertonic theory is a mistake–too much salt is irritating. If one wants pre-mixed packets (convenient when away from home, with a nasal rinse bottle, or other small portable device), the Nasalrinse packets by Neilmed are MUCH cheaper than those by Entsol, and they are not hypertonic, but isotonic. I believe they are made from just salt and baking soda. (I don’t know the proportions.) For info: www.neilmed.com

Response:

I have found that equal amounts of bicarb and salt feel the best. I use 1/2 tsp of each in 2 cups water. (1 tsp salt in 2 cups water is isotonic, but when you add sodium bicarbonate you’re adding more sodium so it becomes hypertonic. I haven’t tried to figure out how close to isotonic my mixture is.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <985b3ebb.0305251651.2d0cc…@posting.google.com>, cwhite0714 wrote: > " MS" <m…@nospam.com> wrote in message <news:1053699200.852398@news-1.nethere.net>… >> "ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message >> news:20030512114626.11596.00000153@mb-m24.aol.com… >> > solution mixture is 1 tsp pickling salt + 1/8 tsp baking soda per 16 oz. >> tap >> > water. >> One doctor ( a well-known allergist) recommended to me equal amounts of >> baking soda and salt. So, there seems to be a difference of opinion >> regarding the quantity of baking soda, when one includes it in the mixture >> at all. > I’d been using 1/4 tsp salt in a neti pot when I saw an ENT who told > me that Entsol solution was "better." It’s a buffered hypertonic > solution with four salt-related ingredients in it. For a while I > switched to 1/4 tsp of that in the neti pot. It’s expensive! And while > it felt better than just salt, that didn’t seem to justify the extra > cost. So when I ran into something suggesting that adding 1/8 tsp > baking soda to the salt might be useful, I tried that. Much better > than just salt! And way cheaper than Entsol solution. (And I don’t > have to persuade the pharmacist to look it up and order it for me now. > They all acted as though I was an idiot, and never apologized when > they actually found the substance listed in their order book. Grr.)

– remove "noe" to reply

Response:

"ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20030512114626.11596.00000153@mb-m24.aol.com… > solution mixture is 1 tsp pickling salt + 1/8 tsp baking soda per 16 oz. tap > water.

One doctor ( a well-known allergist) recommended to me equal amounts of baking soda and salt. So, there seems to be a difference of opinion regarding the quantity of baking soda, when one includes it in the mixture at all.

Response:

" MS" <m…@nospam.com> wrote in message <news:1053699200.852398@news-1.nethere.net>… > "ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message > news:20030512114626.11596.00000153@mb-m24.aol.com… > > solution mixture is 1 tsp pickling salt + 1/8 tsp baking soda per 16 oz. > tap > > water. > One doctor ( a well-known allergist) recommended to me equal amounts of > baking soda and salt. So, there seems to be a difference of opinion > regarding the quantity of baking soda, when one includes it in the mixture > at all.

I’d been using 1/4 tsp salt in a neti pot when I saw an ENT who told me that Entsol solution was "better." It’s a buffered hypertonic solution with four salt-related ingredients in it. For a while I switched to 1/4 tsp of that in the neti pot. It’s expensive! And while it felt better than just salt, that didn’t seem to justify the extra cost. So when I ran into something suggesting that adding 1/8 tsp baking soda to the salt might be useful, I tried that. Much better than just salt! And way cheaper than Entsol solution. (And I don’t have to persuade the pharmacist to look it up and order it for me now. They all acted as though I was an idiot, and never apologized when they actually found the substance listed in their order book. Grr.)

Response:

the time it takes to exit varies and is not a prime concern. You can try distilled or spring water and see if that feels better. In Los Angeles, we genterally use tap water except in sesitive persons. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

On 15 May 2003 16:36:12 -0700, bri…@hotmail.com (Bri001) wrote: >Hi. I just started using my new Grossan Irrigator. I’ve read several >previous messages about water remaining in sinuses after use, but I’ve >experienced having water flow out of my nose an entire EIGHT HOURS >after I’ve irrigated. I’ve read it’s supposed to take only 20 minutes. >Does this mean my cilla are completely wrecked?

Yes, you need to do the wet dog. I can’t take it, so I do a slow motion version. Rotate the head in every direction you can think of for 20 minutes after irrigation. Slowly. Eventually, you will be able to "feel" saline in different parts of the sinuses and study the sinuses enough to figure out where the saline is and how to get it out. This will reduce your "surprise" drainage considerably, but not cure it. Sorry. Sometimes if just comes out anyway. At inopportune moments (every time). >Also, would distilled water be preferable to tap? Can clorine and >other minerals in tap water be harmful in sinueses?

I only use distilled water (which is a pain in the butt to get ahold of sometimes). Tap water is not safe, though if you boil it that would be better.

Response:

Hi. I just started using my new Grossan Irrigator. I’ve read several previous messages about water remaining in sinuses after use, but I’ve experienced having water flow out of my nose an entire EIGHT HOURS after I’ve irrigated. I’ve read it’s supposed to take only 20 minutes. Does this mean my cilla are completely wrecked? Also, would distilled water be preferable to tap? Can clorine and other minerals in tap water be harmful in sinueses? Thanks

Response:

Nah. The time varies. My personal experience is that the better my sinus health, the quicker the saline solution drains. If I’m just coming off a sinusitis flare-up, it takes a lot longer — sometimes I’ve gotten morning drainage from a bed-time irrigation.

Response:

awesome! thank you! this is all very helpful! from your post: >1. how much solution is recommended per sinus irrigation? >For most persons 300 to 500 cc is fine. If the return is still yellow >green – >purulent – might need another 500 cc.

what is "purulent"? — God Bless! ——- Ruth Berry Signature Images http://www.berryimages.com Psalms 27:14 Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and He shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord.

Response:

You don’t need a converter for the 220 Hydro Pulse. Just send an e mail to hydro…@adelphia.net saying you want the 220volt. Usually we pick this up automatically and e mail you too. There is no difference in charges for the 220 Volt vs the 110 volt Hydro Pulse. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

Thanks again, Murray. One last question – I want to order the 220 Volt version of the Hydro Pulse (I live in New Zealand), but in the order form on hydromedonline.com, it says you need a transformer to use it at 220 Volts. Where can I order the 220 Volt version. Many thanks, Jamie "ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20030511132328.13188.00000157@mb-m14.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The irrigator tips we use in the office last for years. I doubt if they ever > need to be replaced. > People do get confused because there are two nasal tips that come with the > Hydro Pulse, but that is for the usual situation where more than one person > uses the Hydro Pulse. > In my practice, most patients end up with more than one person using the Hydro > Pulse. Hence two tips come with it. > Additional tips for the Hydro Pulse are available too. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

1. how much solution is recommended per sinus irrigation? For most persons 300 to 500 cc is fine. If the return is still yellow green – purulent – might need another 500 cc. 2. how many irrigations per day/24 hour period? If the return is clear, once a day is fine. If the return is purulent, twice a day. 3. can too much solution per irrigation or amount of irrigations per day be harmful? Judging from reports, no, but I don’t like more than 2x a day because there are healthful enzymes in the normal mucus that you want to keep. Essentially, use as much solution as is needed to get aout the bacteria – yellow green stuff and do this twice a day if there is yellow green. If the nose is normal, no need to continue irrigation. You don’t need to be more normal. exception: if you are sensitive and easily catch a common cold, irrigation when exposed removes a chemical called ICAM-1 that is the entry for the cold virus so irrigatiion then is recommended. the other excpetion: If you know your pollen season, irrigation removes both pollen and IgE factors and can reduce allergy symptoms. Whether it helps in dust allergy is not fully determined at this time. Any feedback here? Another exception re irrigation when your nose is normal: just as you wash your hands when handling chemicals. irrigation after sprays, chemicals, exposure is recommended. Certain industries – esp furniture dust, chrome, etc benefit by irrigation since these chemicals impair cilia. this is all assuming that there is no blockage, just the average "stubborn gunky stuffy" brand of sinus infection or irritation. solution mixture is 1 tsp pickling salt + 1/8 tsp baking soda per 16 oz. tap water. — G Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

The irrigator tips we use in the office last for years. I doubt if they ever need to be replaced. People do get confused because there are two nasal tips that come with the Hydro Pulse, but that is for the usual situation where more than one person uses the Hydro Pulse. In my practice, most patients end up with more than one person using the Hydro Pulse. Hence two tips come with it. Additional tips for the Hydro Pulse are available too. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

I want to thank this group for pointing me toward the Grossan Irrigator. I am a 25 year veteran of chronic and acute sinusitis. I have tried everything minus surgery to manage my problem. For the last few years I have found Flonase to be the most effective medication for my problem which seems to be mostly inflammation of the sinuses along with thickened mucous. In the last few months my Eustachian tubes have been closing as well, sometimes painfully. So, I sought help from an ENT who, after barely taking a history prescribed Singulair and Astelin spray to compliment the Flonase. Because Astelin is an antihistamine I found myself in worse shape than ever due to even more thickening caused by the Astelin. I have no plans to make a return visit to this particular ENT. In desperation, I started researching sinusitis on the net which led me to this group and positive accounts of nasal irrigation. In under a week after purchasing the Grossan Irrigator, I feel remarkably better. I am even noticing an improvement in my sense of taste! I have suspended all my meds and will keep only the Flonase around for a while. Thank you, group and Thank You, Dr. Grossan! Cheers, GF

Response:

It’s a great thing that you didn’t have surgery. It does more harm than good. That was the case for me and lots of others. Happy irrigating. Tom in article skrtbv83p2jfo33uvbu2bud4epoou64…@4ax.com, GF at nos…@optonline.net wrote on 5/11/03 9:00 PM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I want to thank this group for pointing me toward the Grossan Irrigator. > I am a 25 year veteran of chronic and acute sinusitis. I have tried everything > minus surgery to manage my problem. For the last > few years I have found Flonase to be the most effective medication for my > problem which seems to be mostly inflammation of the > sinuses along with thickened mucous. In the last few months my Eustachian > tubes have been closing as well, sometimes painfully. > So, I sought help from an ENT who, after barely taking a history prescribed > Singulair and Astelin spray to compliment the Flonase. > Because Astelin is an antihistamine I found myself in worse shape than ever > due to even more thickening caused by the Astelin. I > have no plans to make a return visit to this particular ENT. > In desperation, I started researching sinusitis on the net which led me to > this group and positive accounts of nasal irrigation. > In under a week after purchasing the Grossan Irrigator, I feel remarkably > better. I am even noticing an improvement in my sense of > taste! I have suspended all my meds and will keep only the Flonase around for > a while. > Thank you, group and Thank You, Dr. Grossan! > Cheers, > GF

Response:

"ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

I have a few questions: 1. how much solution is recommended per sinus irrigation? 2. how many irrigations per day/24 hour period? 3. can too much solution per irrigation or amount of irrigations per day be harmful? this is all assuming that there is no blockage, just the average "stubborn gunky stuffy" brand of sinus infection or irritation. solution mixture is 1 tsp pickling salt + 1/8 tsp baking soda per 16 oz. tap water. thanks for the time to respond! — God Bless! ——- Ruth Berry Signature Images http://www.berryimages.com Psalms 27:14 Wait on the Lord: be of good courage, and He shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the Lord.

Response:

Thanks for your reply, Murray. What other ongoing costs would there be – i.e. how often do you have to replace the irrigator tips, etc.? Cheers, Jamie "ENTconsult" <entcons…@aol.comnospam> wrote in message

news:20030510130304.08003.00000071@mb-m19.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The costs of using the Hydro Pulse depend on where you live. > If you live near a 99Cents store, then you can buy the Morton’s salt for > 99cents and at a teaspoon a day should last several months. > I don’t know what the cost of pickling salt is, since 99 cents only store > doesn’t carry it. > Seriously, you use a teaspoon of salt for each irrigation. > You can use Breathe.ease XL each time, that runs about 16.95 for 33 packets. > Murray Grossan, M.D. > http://www.ent-consult.com > http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

Hi all, I’ve been looking at purchasing one of these, but I want to get some idea of the ongoing costs in using it. For those of you that use it, how much would you spend each month on the "consumable" parts? Many thanks, Jamie

Response:

The costs of using the Hydro Pulse depend on where you live. If you live near a 99Cents store, then you can buy the Morton’s salt for 99cents and at a teaspoon a day should last several months. I don’t know what the cost of pickling salt is, since 99 cents only store doesn’t carry it. Seriously, you use a teaspoon of salt for each irrigation. You can use Breathe.ease XL each time, that runs about 16.95 for 33 packets. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.hydromedonline.com/presentingthehydropulse/

Response:

When I irrigate one of my ears always seem to be blocked afterwards. Is there anybody else who has the same side effects ? Additionally whilst the irrigating helps to clear the mucous from the nose, is there a technique that helps to clear it from the back of the throat. I would be pleased to hear from any body that can help. R

Response:

I apply gentle finger pressure to the outlet nostril, which forces some of the water back into the mouth. I say gentle because too much will force water into the ears. I have also experienced the ear blockage, which I attribute to residual mucous (may be wrong). This seems to be going away as I continue to use the irrigator. I find if I massage under and behind the ear it makes a popping in the ear and the stuff gets slowly squoogied out (pardon my inventive vocabulary). After irrigating I like to gargle as I suspect the throat is being assaulted by bacteria from the irrigation. rebo <ric…@fdn.co.uk.NOSPAM> wrote in message

news:38790123@195.34.192.13… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When I irrigate one of my ears always seem to be blocked afterwards. Is > there anybody else who has the same side effects ? Additionally whilst the > irrigating helps to clear the mucous from the nose, is there a technique > that helps to clear it from the back of the throat. I would be pleased to > hear from any body that can help.

Response:

I have a right eustachian tube that is always blocked due to allergies. In fact i have myringotomy tube in that ear to help relieve air pressure in that ear. Will irrigating help my blocked eustachcian tube or will it add to the problem? I’m worried it will just block it worse or trap the water up in my ear and set me up for an infection. Any thoughts? Brett

Response:

I can’t say about your situation but this is the treatment we give our patients with ear blockage – pulsatile irrigation. The idea is that it clears the nose so that no pus is causeing the Eust tube to swell and it tends to restore the movement of the cilia. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com

Response:

Does anyone else notice that after doing Waterpik/Grossan tip irrigation they still have water in their sinuses. You think you’ve blown it out. But then if you turn your head sideways, water comes out of the maxillaries, I guess. I also got the feeling of swimmer’s ear. Is there anything I should be careful of so that I don’t give myself infections? I have read some things on the group before about cleaning the waterpik. Bleach? Alcohol? Vinegar?

Response:

It is desireable to have the solution stay in the sinuses. Just avoid romance for 20 minutes. Best to soak entire unit – basin, etc in one part bleach and 10 parts water for several hours. Rinse thorougly after. Murray Grossan, M.D. http://www.ent-consult.com http://www.TinnitusRelief.net

Response:

>You think you’ve blown it out. >But then if you turn your head sideways, water comes out of the >maxillaries, I guess.

I try to lean my head foward about a half hour after to let the excess water run out. But sometime in the middle of the day I’ll lean my head down to do something and water comes running out. Not a fun thing to have happen in a public place, as it always does! I always have tissues in my pockets for this reason. In addition to Dr Grossan’s advice to bleach the unit weekly, another doctor told me to run vinegar and water through the unit daily. I do both. Nadine

Response:

"CM" <cmcmor…@austinREMOVETHESECAPS.rr.com> wrote in message

news:3BCB7D3B.1073826A@austinREMOVETHESECAPS.rr.com… > Does anyone else notice that after doing Waterpik/Grossan tip irrigation > they still have water in their sinuses. You think you’ve blown it out. > But then if you turn your head sideways, water comes out of the > maxillaries, I guess. I also got the feeling of swimmer’s ear. Is there > anything I should be careful of so that I don’t give myself infections? > I have read some things on the group before about cleaning the waterpik. > Bleach? Alcohol? Vinegar?

Hi! soaking in strong vinegar for an hour has been recommended for disinfecting nebuliser plastic items. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Filed under: Acute sinusitis

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